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Variable x-o for motorola KSN1142 [message #33207] Tue, 17 April 2001 22:31 Go to next message
Andy G is currently offline  Andy G
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
This is a proposed varial x-o for a PA box I am currently building.
The other drivers are an Eminence gamma 12 and an Eminence Beta 12LT in a 2.5 arrangement.
X-o is aimed at 3500Hz 6dB. Gamma 12 will augment bass below about 300
Re: Variable x-o for motorola KSN1142 [message #33210 is a reply to message #33207] Wed, 18 April 2001 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne_Parham is currently offline  Wayne_Parham
Messages: 123
Registered: May 2009
Master
Your crossover is cool, but you will find that the 30 ohm R1 will slightly reduce output in the top octave. From 10kHz to 20kHz, the tweeter's impedance is less than double this value, and nearly equal at 20kHz. So you might use a smaller value series resistor in position R1. Another thing you might do is to add about 20 ohms directly across the tweeter. That will make the load presented to the crossover be nearly equal to the shunt resistance. That will allow you to design a crossover just like you do for any other driver, knowing the shunt resistance value to be the load impedance for crossover component value calculations.
Modified Variable x-o for motorola KSN1142 [message #33211 is a reply to message #33210] Wed, 18 April 2001 01:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy G is currently offline  Andy G
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
After feedback from John Risch on the Mad Board, I have made the following changes. He actually suggested using switched capacitor values, but I guess what I was trying to do was to make a variable piezo x-o with the components I have in stock. I have 4 of those 8 ohm L-pads in stock, an was trying to find a way of using them, rather than buying extra rotary or other switches.


If I remove the 1.5µF cap (doesn't seem necessary) Put 22 ohms across the piezo and add a 15 ohm in series with the parallel leg of the 8 ohm L-pad and push the x-o frequency up to 4500 calculated on 16 ohms (2.2µF), The R1 resistor would be set for the half way position on the L-pad, giving partial cut and gain. (I know that it would not give the same dB cut as on the face-plate of the L-pad, but I wasn't planning to use it anyway.)
Do you reckon it would work ok?

My calcs seem to indicate that the resistance seen by the x-o capacitor would vary between 15.2 and 16.9 ohms. This is probably quite a bit more stable than a normal driver.

ps: [message #33212 is a reply to message #33210] Wed, 18 April 2001 01:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy G is currently offline  Andy G
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
You are probably right about the 30 ohm resistor, but thats what I have been using in other non variable piezo x-os, and its just about right.

Also, as asked further down, have you ever used the Eminence Gamma 12 in a PA box, I had great trouble getting a sensible box size, ended going fully sealed and fully stuff about 95 litres, hope it works. If it doesn't, I'll swap it out with a beta 12 and port that section of the box.

Eminence Gamma series [message #33213 is a reply to message #33212] Wed, 18 April 2001 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne_Parham is currently offline  Wayne_Parham
Messages: 123
Registered: May 2009
Master
Try running PiAlign to see what it recommends.
Re: Modified Variable x-o for motorola KSN1142 [message #33214 is a reply to message #33211] Wed, 18 April 2001 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne_Parham is currently offline  Wayne_Parham
Messages: 123
Registered: May 2009
Master
Adding the 22 ohm resistor is the main thing because it sets the load presented to the crossover. After that, the rest is cake.
Re: Eminence Gamma series [message #33215 is a reply to message #33213] Wed, 18 April 2001 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy G is currently offline  Andy G
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
I will see if PiAlign will work under Virtual PC on my mac.

Thanks for the assistance. Let you know how I end up.

Re: Variable x-o for motorola KSN1142 [message #33438 is a reply to message #33210] Wed, 20 June 2001 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lothar is currently offline  Lothar
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Dear Andy, Wayne with interest I followed your discussion about
Piezo filtering.
Perhaps you could help me out with the following:
I would try to add a Piezo to a Tannoy dual-concentric speaker design.
To add some brilliance. The objective however is to use a 6 db. per
Octave filter with the cut off starting somewhere at 20 khz.
(To not intefere with the idee of the Tannoy principle of superior Phase carateristics by using a point source). Yust adding some upper brilliance!
Could you guys help me out with the values of the C's and R's?
B.t.w if you don't mind I would like to post your reply in the Tannoy
forum.
KSN 1038 as a "Super Tweeter" [message #33439 is a reply to message #33438] Thu, 21 June 2001 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne_Parham is currently offline  Wayne_Parham
Messages: 123
Registered: May 2009
Master
You might be interested in the post called "Pi implementations of quartz piezoelectric tweeters", and in the links to other threads that are contained in this post. As for a specific sugegstion, you might try this:

=== 10kHz Filter ===

Series Capacitance = 1.0uF
Parallel Resistance = 16 ohms


freq resp
=============
20kHz -1 dB
10kHz -3 dB
5kHz -7 dB
2.5kHz -13dB

That will give you some subtle "sparkle" and is probably what you're looking for.

Alternately, I'll describe the exact filter you've asked about, which is a first order 20kHz network. If this is what you want, you'll need a capacitor that's exactly half as big as the one listed above. So you'll want a 16 ohm resistor across the tweeter, and a 0.47uF capacitor in series with the tweeter/resistor connection.

This will give the following response curve:

=== 20kHz Filter ===

Series Capacitance = 0.47uF
Parallel Resistance = 16 ohms


freq resp
=============
20kHz -3 dB
10kHz -7 dB
5kHz -13dB
2.5kHz -19dB

A KSN 1038 using this second filter might add some "air," but it will be crossing over pretty high.

Re: KSN 1038 as a "Super Tweeter" [message #33441 is a reply to message #33439] Thu, 21 June 2001 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Lothar is currently offline  Lothar
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Wayne, first af all: thanks for your reply!
At this moment I am sitting in my laziest chair ready to surf to all the links I can find provided in your reply.
Tomorrow a pair of piezo's is waiting for me at the local dealer, and I am anxious to try it, although I am satisfied with the treble in the current configuration most of the times.
It's an experiment: I'll let you know the results.
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