Home » Audio » Group Build » Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations?
Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31498] Mon, 28 November 2005 20:11 Go to next message
Norris Wilson is currently offline  Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Hi,
I would like to ask what is your favorite 12B4 with balanced sound characteristics to be used in line stage?
Thanks
Norris Wilson

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31499 is a reply to message #31498] Tue, 29 November 2005 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I wish I culd help, but I have just one pair of "Sylvania" 12B4A...
But, I have to ask - what operating point you plan to use, and way of biasing? I mean - with similar OP (100V/15mA) like with 5687 version, bias is about -12...13V with 12B4A.

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31500 is a reply to message #31499] Tue, 29 November 2005 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norris Wilson is currently offline  Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Sorry Damir,
I have not gotten that far along yet. The real answer is, that I do not have a clue. I was hoping Douglas would be able to provide all of the necessary technical parameters.
I am at the point of trying to figure out how much gain I will need. To include the sound character that I hope to accomplish overall.
I would like to be capable of driving a three-way active system with an inpedance of around 50k and input sensitivity of 750mA.
Any suggestions?
I always try to reach for the golden ring before I have worked out all the details. I do know that less is best when it comes to gain strucure and components used in the signal path, everything has its own character to add to the mix.
I see that Douglas has mentioned he is getting around 6db of gain in the Guinever when using the 12B4.
Thanks
Norris Wilson

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31501 is a reply to message #31500] Tue, 29 November 2005 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Gain, can't emember if it is 10 or 20 times the base-Ten log of the voltage ratio. A 12B4 will give a gain of 6 or so with a CCS load.

I have had good luck with 12B4 and noise or microphony. I think that RCA were the most microphonic, and the others about equally risky of being noisy. Most were hard run power supply tubes, so don't take too much stock in that.

If you meant a 750 mV sensitivity, you won't need much gain I think.

On the power TX design, you want enough turns on the primary to yeild a flux density below the knee of the B-H loop. Keep the flux density low and the core loss will be lower. More turns does mean more copper length and thus resistance. There is nothing really magical about TX design. Nothing really complicated either. The output voltage will then be determined by the turns ratio primary to secondary. There is a bit more, and I'll help you find the answers. Not even output TX design is too complicated for a public forum...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31503 is a reply to message #31501] Tue, 29 November 2005 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I have a nice white-paper on transformer design written by R.G. Keen where he describes all of the important parameters involved in judging the quality of the trans/how they are constructed/how to test and quantify them and how to reverse engineer them. It is very easy to follow yet it is not so simple that you get bored reading it.
I would enjoy discussing the art of trans design if anyone was interested.
For instance how important is it to keep the leakage inductance as low as possible?


Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31504 is a reply to message #31503] Tue, 29 November 2005 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-Hey!!!,
Any chance you'd send me a copy?

Now are we considering audio outputs, or power Iron for the Leackage L question?

cheers,
Douglas

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31505 is a reply to message #31500] Wed, 30 November 2005 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
As Doug said, 6 times (15,5 dB) amplification would be more then enough with most of the input sources. Input of 750/6=125mV = full output needed (750mV).
On the original schematic, you can change the tube to 12B4A and put 6 LEDs for bias in series (original=two LEDs), for the new OP, about 100V/20mA/-11V. Or you can try the resistor of 11/0,02 ~ 560 Ohms.
For CCS current adjustments, see the link. You can find various ideas about "Guinevere", PCBs, etc. in the archive.

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31506 is a reply to message #31504] Wed, 30 November 2005 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yes; I would be more than happy to; just e-mail it to your e-mail address?
Audio outputs.

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31507 is a reply to message #31506] Wed, 30 November 2005 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Yes, just send to my email. pentode at netscape dot com.

Seems to me leakage L is improtant for at least two reasons. One is frequency response. Leakage L looks like a series L with the primary L/reflected load parallel combo. The other is for transient voltage tolerance. Leakage L is going to offer an independant L to create a high voltage transient if current is interrupted.
cheers,
Douglas

Re: Need favorite 12B4 for Guinevere line stage recommendations? [message #31508 is a reply to message #31505] Wed, 30 November 2005 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Norris Wilson is currently offline  Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Thanks Damir for the 12B4 information.

I have been trying to track down some of the DN2540N5 depletion mode transistors, but have been stiking out.
I have found a few larger electronic firms such as Mouser, that will be happy to sell me 50 at a time.
None of the firms where I have looked, stock this model of transistor.
I am not sure I would need 50 of these.
Does anyone have a decent supplier where I can buy a smaller lot of 10 or less of the DN2540N5 transistors?

Douglas did mention a TO-92 variant that would work, DN3545N3.
But, I would rather have the TO-22 that appears to be a little more robust and has more heat sink realestate.

Also, I would love to hear about others experiences in building a power supply for the Guinevere?

I am under the impression that the 12B4 has a slight problem of being susceptible to noise from the power supply. At least this is what I have read on a few other forums, or believe this is what they meant. Does the CCS reduce this susceptability to noise?

Thanks

Norris Wilson

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