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Push-Pull 300B [message #31090] Mon, 16 May 2005 17:07 Go to next message
Russellc is currently offline  Russellc
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Any interest out there in a push-pull 300b amp? For years I have thought about one of these, they are supposed to sound unreally cool. I first got this itch from an issue of Sound Practices. They were featuring a fellow who had built them for years from a giant stash of transformers he ownes. Interestingly, he built his amps on metal cake pans, the ones from the 60s with the slide of metal tops. Apparently he had a giant stash of these also. He just turned them upside down and built the amp! He wasn't interested in single ended, all he built were push-pull 300b amps. Anyone heard such a beast?

Regards, Russellc

Re: Push-Pull 300B [message #31091 is a reply to message #31090] Mon, 16 May 2005 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
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Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Google under "push pull" and 300B. Look under "images" for several schematics. If you need a big metal pan to build these on, I've got a stack of 3 x 4' metal pans sitting in the garage I'd LOVE to get rid of....Colin

Re: Push-Pull 300B [message #31092 is a reply to message #31091] Mon, 16 May 2005 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
That was AL. He also used 6sn7's as driver tubes and 6sl7's as phase splitters. What a guy. Joe Roberts really liked those amps.
Colin; lets talk about possible trade for cake pans.
Lot of people drive 300b's with 300b's in PP.

Re: Push-Pull 300B [message #31093 is a reply to message #31092] Tue, 17 May 2005 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
paba is currently offline  paba
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Oh and while you are at it, you can add to your amp a 300b for power regulation... there is an article on tubecad journal with circuits.

300b driver
300b output (PP so atleast 2 300b)
300b regulator

should be a pretty expensive amp.

Re: Push-Pull 300B [message #31095 is a reply to message #31092] Wed, 18 May 2005 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russellc is currently offline  Russellc
Messages: 397
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Yes, Al was it? I still have my copies of sound practices mags around somewhere or the other. They had selected him as recipient of a pair of single ended transformers but he turned them down stating he much prefered his 300bs P-P to single ended and suggested they give them to some young diyer. They had his schematic on their web site of the day, but I never downloaded it. Don't have the schematic do you? Anybody?

Russellc



one is on my list... [message #31096 is a reply to message #31090] Fri, 20 May 2005 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-Hey!!!,
One such beast is on my list of amps to build. It is a bit far down the list for a few reasons, the main one being I find dealing with Pentodes a bit more fun( and some Tantalum anode DH pentodes are in my sights.

An 8k a-a with 20W of core rating would be my choice. 10k a-a is twice the SE load of 5k and cuts maximum power just a bit more than 8k a-a. E-Linear taps at ~10% and B+ ~370. Higher load would allow a higher B+ w/o leaving class A and leave more volts for the front end. Keep it absolutely Class A bias, perhaps even to the point of limiting power a bit. 12 or 14 Watts is hard to tell from 17...

For the front end, a differential pair of 6C45's look quite good. Hard to get a matched pair I am told, but I have heard them built in PP DHT amps to good effect.

Lots of options for sure, and with good OPTx design, it will be hard to make it sound bad...
regards,
Douglas

6S45Pi [message #31097 is a reply to message #31096] Fri, 20 May 2005 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I have two pairs, bought as "matched", but for the differential "work" they probably need some "trimming" (high gm = small change in Ugk=large change in Ia). Fantastic tube, high ยต and gm, 1mm thick Ti-anode, Pt- grid wire, very linear, but needs some attention to avoid "transistor sound" (k5) - better run on lower current (by Pete Millett measurements). Then oscillations are higly possible, maybe best to use "stoppers" on both grid connections, and all four cathode connections.
It`s high on my list too (300B driver), but too many other options to try, and I`m too lazy...
Another not so good feature is that it needs bias in the -2...2,5V area, broadly speaking, and cannot "accept" full 2Vrms signal from CD source... And we need about 2*55Vrms input (min.) in 300B pair...not so easy even for 6S45Pi in diff. driver. But, one stage driver sounds good:-).
At least, if nothing concretly, I posted the picture:-)

6S45Pi diff pair input signal headroom [message #31098 is a reply to message #31097] Fri, 20 May 2005 07:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-Hey!!!,
If you arrange a common cathode differential pair for phase splitting, one grid will be grounded, and signal will be applied to the other.

With the -2V of cathode-grid bias on them, the input headroom will be twice that assuming a few idealizations( like perfectly linear valves ). apply a 1V signal ( say a DC voltage ) and the cathode voltage will increase by 0.5V There will be a +/- mu/2 plate voltage change on the anodes( the input section will go - and the grounded section will go + ).

The anode-anode voltage change will be mu*input voltage. Accounting for nonlinearities, most of which cause 2nd order distortion, the actual headroom will be slightly different.
regards,
Douglas


Re: 6S45Pi diff pair input signal headroom [message #31099 is a reply to message #31098] Fri, 20 May 2005 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Yes, I described my experience with SE driver, and forgot that diff. driver is totally different beast. About half of the input voltage we`ll "see" at the cathodes, you are right. (The last time I tinkering with "long-tail" circuit it was on the guitar amp about 5 years ago:-)).
I forgot one other thing - diff. pair cancels even and sums odd harmonics, probably not a good thing with already "difficult" 6S45Pi?
Well, YOU must try it in the real world, and see/hear
I used rel. low values of grid-leak resistor, too.
But, with 2Vrms input on the grid of V1 we can expect about 40Vrms per anode out, too low for 300B.


but, but, but... [message #31100 is a reply to message #31099] Sat, 21 May 2005 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
with a 2.24v grid bias you can feed them almost 4.5 volts before you get grid current on the input valve. Perhaps 4.3 volts peak, or +/- 4.3 v would give a better idea of maximum output at the anodes. High gm valves probably get a bit of early grid current. Certainly the lower gm 6H30 gets grid current before its cousin the 6H6....
regards,
Douglas

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