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PP 845 [message #31063] Wed, 20 April 2005 11:19 Go to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-hey!!!,
There are a few things I'd like to do with an amp like this.

Adjustable B+. through a tapped primary on the plate TX. 300 mA at up to 1kVAC. L-C filter will take B+ to the high side of 800V. Check on PSUD for details.

individual filament TX and hum balance pots for each of the 845 Finals. This allows fised bias and indivudual current sensing. Very quiet, hum free operation with this method, yet still keep the simple AC heating for the cathodes/filaments.

10k a-a at 40-50W 20-20k cps for the output Iron. Taps at 10 and 20% for E-Linear drivers. This simplifies the PS construction, and valve count.

keep it two stage. We will need ~+/- 80V of grid swing to each 845. No biggie with more than 500V of B+ to deal with, and a linestage with adequate gain.
Now it can be done three stage, and a power triode like the 2A3 can be the driver. 5687 ahead of it. resistive loading on the 2A3 of 5-10k Ohms should leave the valve well within limits even for old single plate. The new production ought to handle it with even more margin of safety.

The bias supply will need to be ~120 V negative. No big deal there. Might as well do it L-C as well. 50k linear pots are an easy score and quite adequate. Do the 2A3's with a cathode biased CCS and keep it a bit simpler, or do that stage fixed bias as well...

the front end will be a differential pair, one grid grounded and one driven SE to do the phase splitting.

Power ought to get near 30W, maybe more with higher B+ and remain Class A bias throughout.

I have my doubts as to keeping it to $800/channel if valves are included in that price( let alone NOS 845's ).

Rectifiers of parallel TV damper diodes are WAY cheap ( $2 each for 12AX4's and a 4-pack ought to do for each amp ). There are of course others. Keep voltage in mind when lookig at the basing, the 866 was built the way it was for a good reason. The 866 also clows in such a satisfying manner.

there'smore of course, but that's the skeleton.
regards,
Douglas

Re: PP 845 (little theoretycal ramblings:-)) [message #31066 is a reply to message #31063] Wed, 20 April 2005 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
With OP 800V/-120V, Ia=60mA (60mAp or 42,4mArms max. AC current "swing")and that limits PP A-class to about
Paa = Ia^2*Raa = 0,04242^2 * 10000 = 18W.
And yes, we must "limit" our "input swing" to less then 80Vp per output tube if we want to stay in A-class, lets say 54Vrms per tube, then every tube "produce" AC anode voltage:
Ua=mu*Ugk/(1+rp/Ra) = 5,3*54/(1+1700/5000) = 213,5Vrms
And we have 2*213,5=427Vrms across primary, and Paa=Uaa^2/Raa=18,2W.

Actually, my little formula gives Ra= Ugk*mu/Ia - rp =
120*5,3/0,06 - 1700 = 8,9 kOhms in SE , or Raa=2*Ra=17,8kOhms.
Quick graphical load-line analysis gives about 9,3 kOhms per tube in SE, or about Raa=2*Ra=18,6kOhms in PP A class.
Then, with Raa=18kOhms we have about Paa=32W in "pure" A-class. Of course, Raa=18k OPT is somewhat "impractical", haha... ("Lundahl" model LL1688 has Raa=20,5k.)
IMO -it`s hard to get more then 18-20W in A-class with 10k a-a OPT...but class AB1 on peaks are not a great sin I suppose?

PP 845 (more theoretycal ramblings:-)) [message #31067 is a reply to message #31066] Wed, 20 April 2005 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-Hey!!!!,
I had in mind a high power OP of ~800V and 110 mA idle. Nearly 90 watts plate dissipation. Perhaps, 100 mA might be a better OP. Power would probably be more like 25 Watts unless we increase B+ to 900V. Insulation concerns begin to appear at this B+....

Life expectancy of what is a fairly inexpensive new production valve ought to be acceptable.

I haven't built this one, but I have heard some SE, low voltage 845 amps. Running 5k anode load. Stretching the OP a bit higher and hotter and adding a little NFB from the E-Linear connection ought to allow a 10k a-a and still manage impedance loopiness( or more accurately hilliness ).

And now for the dogmatic part: Everybody knows that PP is better anyway...
regards,
Douglas



Huh... :-) [message #31068 is a reply to message #31067] Thu, 21 April 2005 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I was misguided with HV=800V and bias ~120V, I read 60mA from the curves...haha.
Well, with 800V/100mA/-109V you certainly can get 30W in A class with Raa=10k.
And in my view, GM70 is a great alternative, quad can be found for $105 ("Anthony Welsh"), and even the sockets can be found (www.roehretechnik.de) for about 10 Euros each, not too bad.
No experience either :-(.


PP GM70 [message #31069 is a reply to message #31068] Thu, 21 April 2005 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Certainly a viable alternative to the 845. I think the PP circuit will take care of filament hum. I certainly have gotten nothing bad from advancing from 2.5 to 6 to 12 in my DH stuff. I don't think increasing to 20 will hurt much.

6k6 a-a with U-L/E-Linear drivers and 813's at 750V/120 mA is another interesting prospect. I just need to get a good 6k6 OPTx. It remains to be seen if my 20W model is going to be properly scaled up.

for filaments, a 22V/5A tx with a variac on its primary will allow powering 813's to the 20V Russian filaments with the twist of a knob.
regards,
Douglas



Re: PP GM70 [message #31070 is a reply to message #31069] Thu, 21 April 2005 19:09 Go to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Lay it out where you are going with the Trans for a possible PP amp if I may ask. Thanks J.R. We would like to follow down the rabbit hole.

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