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Hey Wunhuanglo, it's true [message #29153] Tue, 13 July 2004 16:46 Go to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I.ve been known to use zip chord, I can't hear cable risers, cryo and belts and dots and dashes are bullshit but MDF shelves are tinny sounding. Go figure..............

Re: Hey Wunhuanglo, it's true [message #29154 is a reply to message #29153] Wed, 14 July 2004 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
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Don't get it. If MDF is good for speakers, shouldn't it be good for shelving? If anything, you'd think that a solid wood plank would have more resonance.

Re: Damn good question! Who's got answers? [message #29157 is a reply to message #29154] Wed, 14 July 2004 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
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I made that observation about the MDF shelves before I ever built a speaker. I built my first speakers from MDF
cause that's what everybody does. Continued with it 'cause that's what everybody does and it's cheap. works well and holds veneer well.
I did build the Fostex horns from plywood but they sounded so different from what I was used to.
Seems more and more speakers DIY and commercial get built with solid wood or plywood and solid or MDF and solid or billets of aluminum and carbon fibre, etc.,.......
I come back to the absolute fact that my Cambridge CD player which had an overall laid back and mellow presentation sounded like an AM radio on the MDF.
HMMMMMMMMM.............

Re: Damn good question! Who's got answers? [message #29158 is a reply to message #29157] Wed, 14 July 2004 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
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I was alway told that what made solid wood excellent for musical instruments is horrible for speakers. All "tone-wood" should be avoided, but yet, there are those who are building cabinets with solid planks.

BTW, Cambridge Audio CD player. I like a man who understands value. I got my Azur last year and I have not desire to "upgrade" to one of those other trendy $2000 CDP. Money's better spend on software.

Gar.

Re: Damn good question! Who's got answers? [message #29159 is a reply to message #29158] Wed, 14 July 2004 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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I dont have any good answers, but a preference or two.

Are you suggesting that properly fan braced mohagony cabinet with a rosewood back and spruce top would be bad sounding? :)

Be fun to make up some smallish units for fun and measure them.

I dont work with MDF anymore. I never liked it and used it beacuse it was good for veneering. well, it just plain suck most other times!
I do all veneer work over birch ply now.

Ther's more to be said for a 'tuned' cabinet than one made from 4 inches of concrete?

Bill

Re: Damn good question! Who's got answers? [message #29160 is a reply to message #29158] Thu, 15 July 2004 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dean Kukral is currently offline  Dean Kukral
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I am having a little trouble understanding how a properly braced and damped system would sound different no matter what you used to build it.

My understanding is that solid wood is not used for the same reason that your kitchen cabinets, quality bedroom furniture, and doors are not solid wood - it expands and contracts with the changes in humidity. Eventually something as large as a woofer would be likely to split or crack open at a seam.

Am I wrong about this?

Re: Hey Wunhuanglo, it's true [message #29161 is a reply to message #29153] Thu, 15 July 2004 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
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Well, sir, I accept the fact that you think so, and more power to you.

But unless there's a resonance available due to the combination of the shelves and their supports that excites microphonics in your tubes or a resonance in your turntable, I can't think of any reason for the difference.

Best,
Charlie

Re: Damn good question! Who's got answers? [message #29162 is a reply to message #29160] Thu, 15 July 2004 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
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I my estimation, yes, you're wrong.

The issues surrounding solid wood construction in cabinet making and staircasing/doormaking are ones of technique. A very good reference is Fine Woodworking's "On Period Furniture". It's certainly easier to veneer composition materials, but it's not "better" than solid wood.

The grounding in early veneered work would qualify as high art today. The grounding was frequently built from true Mahogany – veneer was adopted as a way to achieve effects not otherwise possible or impractical (book matching, large radius curved work, etc...)

The difference between a Goddard highboy and a loudspeaker is that, whether you perceive it so or not, a loudspeaker is a machine. Machines have different requirements from furniture. Inertness of cabinetry is one important criteria poorly satisfied by solid wood construction.

Can you create a beautiful piece of furniture by veneering a composite ground material? Sure. Is it superior to a solid wood construction properly done? I don’t think so.


Re: Damn good question! Who's got answers? [message #29164 is a reply to message #29162] Fri, 16 July 2004 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dean Kukral is currently offline  Dean Kukral
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First, I am thinking along the lines of plain wood, not veneer - of course, if you use mdf, then you need to cover it to make it look good.

I have thought about my bedroom dressers, which have solid sides built up from strips about 5" wide. Also my kitchen table top is solid wood.

Why, then, do they go to all the trouble of making floating panels for cabinets and drawer bottoms, if not because of expansion? I suppose it is as you say - you can use solid wood if you know what you are doing.

I have a bunch of oak (two guys I used to work with and I bought it in 1990 from some guy who cut it and planed it; $100 - it is worth ten times that now :), and it would be nice to build my woofer cabinets with it, but I thought that would lead to problems. Do you think that it would work ok? I had planned on using it for my mid-horns, but oak plywood for the woofers.

Re: Hey Wunhuanglo, it's true [message #29177 is a reply to message #29153] Tue, 27 July 2004 00:59 Go to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Gotte go with Bill on this one; Had an open back MDF shelf. I wanted to try a new smaller solid walnut table. Never thought it would matter, just for looks. WOAH! Much better. My wife took it back though, I am not allowed to do anything around here! And I had to do the vacumn on top of it.( Tried hiding it under a doily; no good)

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