Home » Audio » Pro Sound » Adire Tempest horn sub
Adire Tempest horn sub [message #27937] Mon, 06 September 2004 11:10 Go to next message
Kramer is currently offline  Kramer
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor

On the array forum, Dan Wiggins and Jim Griffin discussed the science behind near field arrays. It is interesting, so go look if you haven't seen it already. I took another look at Adire Audio after that and the Tempest horn sub grabbed my attention. Do any of you have experience with this sub? It might have been overlooked because it looks like it might be one of the best hornsubs going.


Re: Adire Tempest horn sub [message #27938 is a reply to message #27937] Mon, 06 September 2004 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Fitzmaurice is currently offline  Bill Fitzmaurice
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Grand Master
Same reply as at the Speakers forum: it's an obsolete design that can be beat by a number of others. You can get equivalent performance from cabinets far smaller, or far better performance from equivalent sized cabinets.

Re: Adire Tempest horn sub [message #27940 is a reply to message #27938] Mon, 06 September 2004 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kramer is currently offline  Kramer
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So I guess Enzyte is right, size matters. LOL

Re: Adire Tempest horn sub [message #27941 is a reply to message #27940] Tue, 07 September 2004 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Fitzmaurice is currently offline  Bill Fitzmaurice
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Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
The main problem here is that horns work best when you use a small driver with a large horn. This design does the opposite, using a large driver in a box that's too small to allow a proper development of the horn. Back when this design came out in the early '70s it was useful, since back then you didn't have long throw high BL tens and twelves, and you had to use a fifteen by default; as limited as the design was it was better than a reflex box in terms of extension and SPL, so it had value in pro-sound where a 50Hz F3 is useful. But todays drivers have pretty much rendered the whole idea of using a 15 in a horn loaded box to the heap. Smaller drivers allow more horn from the same size box, with an attendant increase in performance.

Size matters [message #27946 is a reply to message #27941] Tue, 07 September 2004 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kramer is currently offline  Kramer
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
-Not an Enzyte commercial-

Question:

Where is the happy medium here? If horns work best when using a small driver, why not just keep getting smaller? Go down to a 4" driver. Don't stop there, go with 2".

The problem is that the smaller you go, the further you must thrust the cone. Seems to me the compromise is size of box verses depth of bass. This is basically the same compromise as a non horn bass speaker.

That brings me back to thinking size matters.

Re: Size matters [message #27947 is a reply to message #27946] Tue, 07 September 2004 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Fitzmaurice is currently offline  Bill Fitzmaurice
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Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
If you could get a 4 inch driver with an Fs of 35Hz and six inches excursion it would have the ability to outperform a 15 in an equally sized enclosure. Right now that isn't possible. But someday?

What I can say for sure is that using a ten I get the same performance as a 15 or 18, or 21 for that matter, from a considerably smaller box. On the other hand, if the boxes are the same size with equal mouth sizes they have the same radiating area, while the longer horn made possible by the smaller driver and smaller chamber required to house it gives a longer pathway for a lower Fc and a higher acoustical impedance for both lower extension and higher SPL.

Re: Size matters [message #27949 is a reply to message #27947] Tue, 07 September 2004 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kramer is currently offline  Kramer
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Somehow there seems to be part of the picture missing here. I was kidding, but from what you are saying, it looks like you would rather have the smallest driver possible for subs. Would you use a tiny, heavy, high thrust woofer? What about so called doppler distortion?

Re: Size matters [message #27950 is a reply to message #27949] Tue, 07 September 2004 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Nothing missing.

note: not THE SMALLEST driver.

but Smaller,One that has enough Vd, 10/12" units have enough thesedays.

Xmax getting into the inches!

Rear chamber size becomes a problem with 18" units etc

There just isnt a point when compactness is required

Im only using my jbl 2226 on a horn because i own it already and want to use it. a new 10" will achieve much the same SPL on a horn,with compactness and only slightly reduced output


Quite right. [message #27953 is a reply to message #27950] Wed, 08 September 2004 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Fitzmaurice is currently offline  Bill Fitzmaurice
Messages: 335
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Yes, a horn works best when as much cabinet space as possible is devoted to the horn and not to the driver/rear chamber pushing it, so smaller is better as far as the driver is concerned. But getting the requisite driver specs won't allow you to go beyond certain limits. I can get what I need for pro-sound from a ten, but not an eight. I can get what I need for HT/Autosound from an eight, but not a six. That's not to say that these size limitatations might not go down someday if, again, someone comes up with a four that has a six inch Xmax and will stay linear with 300 watts input. I'm not holding my breath on that one. But even two years ago an appropriate eight for a horn loaded sub wasn't really out there, and now at least one (MCM 55-2421)is. Thanks to this driver I now have a horn loaded sub that is not only 10dB more sensitive than a ported box loaded with a 15, at 3.3 cu.ft. it's smaller too.

Doppler distortion [message #27955 is a reply to message #27953] Wed, 08 September 2004 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kevin Jordan is currently offline  Kevin Jordan
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Registered: May 2009
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Kramer makes a good point. If woofer size goes down, excursion must go up. The horn
can be made smaller, but will it really be better? Math is not my strong suite, but as a
designer, maybe you can tell us the doppler distortion % of 15", 12", 10", 8" and 6"
drivers at the excursion required to make 35hz and 140hz notes simultaneously?
This would be an interesting comparison to make.
Rgs,
Kevin

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