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Re: For the record :) [message #2551 is a reply to message #2548] |
Wed, 21 December 2005 20:41 |
MWG
Messages: 344 Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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It's kind of like when they used to say if amps measure the same they sound the same. Most didn't to me but what do I know? It's off to the shop to listen to some old LPs that I came accross. Benny Goodman sure had a sweet sound.
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Re: For the record :) [message #2555 is a reply to message #2548] |
Thu, 22 December 2005 10:13 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186 Registered: May 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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WEll, yea but.... To say that good measurements guarantees good sound both misses the point and is silly. There are too many things going on that either cannot be measured or at least cannot be measured with the equipment available to most hobbyists. The reverse, if everything can't be measured, than all measurements are worthless is equally silly. There are any number of things that can and will go wrong with an audio system in any reasonable listening room. Properly taken measurements can help eliminate reflection, resonances and large deviations from flat in the room and in the speaker itself. Once the incidentals are taken care of, then the listener can make judgments as to whether the system has that magic or not. "There are liars, damned liars and statisticians". (Mark Twain) Those who rely solely on measurements are statisticians. Measurements are only a tool, but a very valuable tool. At least in the process of building audio components, doing without measurements is going in blind. Bob
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Re: For the record :) [message #2558 is a reply to message #2554] |
Thu, 22 December 2005 12:48 |
elektratig
Messages: 348 Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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MB, Many of the cds I listen to are remakes of old mono recordings, often 78s. Most are classical and opera, and old-time country and blues, with some jazz. To the extent vinyl reissues of the same recordings exist, I don't have them and thus can't compare. But I will say that many are very well produced. Assuming care was taken in the production of the cd, I don't have a problem listening through the recordings and don't get tired of them. I don't know the series you're referring to, but my suggestion would be to get one and see how it strikes you.
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Re: For the record :) [message #2559 is a reply to message #2556] |
Thu, 22 December 2005 14:18 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186 Registered: May 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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Agreed! One you get all of the graphs and charts laid out, the black arts take over. Some stuff you see you can fix, some you can't. Then you hear stuff that you can't see. The same goes for modeling. If you don't start with a good set of assumptions, you will never achieve a good design. I see it all of the time. Guys will come up with a reasonable FR plot and announce to the world how good it will be, but when you look at the design parameters, you know it will never work. Modeling and measuring are just tools, and I need all of the help I can get, but in the end I have to sit down and listen. Bob
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Re: For the record :) [message #2561 is a reply to message #2560] |
Thu, 22 December 2005 20:45 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186 Registered: May 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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Actually, we design by modeling. The problem is that every model, by its very nature, is a simplification of reality. Simplification allows us to run the models on finite, limited computers. Simplification makes modeling possible, but soon or later, simplifications come back to bite you. Models always either diverge or blow up at the extremes. Bob
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