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Re: If you like Chet [message #2549 is a reply to message #2546] Wed, 21 December 2005 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leland Crooks is currently offline  Leland Crooks
Messages: 212
Registered: May 2009
Master
I knew Glen could play, but didn't think he was in Roy or Jose's leaue. Roy Clark's backup guitarist is a customer at my store. He retired a couple of years ago. Really good guy. I don't know how he played, he as sausage fingers, like a construction worker.

Re: If you like Chet [message #2550 is a reply to message #2549] Wed, 21 December 2005 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MWG is currently offline  MWG
Messages: 344
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
About the only thing I play is the stereo...........and that rather poorly
In a time long forgotten I played the French Horn for awhile until we moved and the new school didn't have a music program.

Re: For the record :) [message #2551 is a reply to message #2548] Wed, 21 December 2005 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MWG is currently offline  MWG
Messages: 344
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
It's kind of like when they used to say if amps measure the same they sound the same. Most didn't to me but what do I know?

It's off to the shop to listen to some old LPs that I came accross. Benny Goodman sure had a sweet sound.


Re: For the record :) [message #2554 is a reply to message #2551] Thu, 22 December 2005 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Say; you have touched on a topic that has been bugging me lately. I have invested in a series of older vynil consisting of Jazz recordings of individuals from the 30/40's such as Benny and Artie Shaw, Ben Webster etc. They are recorded by a Japanese label and sold through a German distributor. All re-mastered from mono recordings. They sound good but they also don't have that prescence that we strive so hard to accomplish with our systems. So I listen on the walkman. Now Prestige has come out with a set of similar type archival recordings; Coltrane and Red Garland etc. Sold in Borders for 10$ a pop.
Here's my point; do you like the re-recorded mono stuff and can you listen to it for extended periods? Or do you get bored with the sound?

Re: For the record :) [message #2555 is a reply to message #2548] Thu, 22 December 2005 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
WEll, yea but....

To say that good measurements guarantees good sound both misses the point and is silly. There are too many things going on that either cannot be measured or at least cannot be measured with the equipment available to most hobbyists. The reverse, if everything can't be measured, than all measurements are worthless is equally silly.

There are any number of things that can and will go wrong with an audio system in any reasonable listening room. Properly taken measurements can help eliminate reflection, resonances and large deviations from flat in the room and in the speaker itself. Once the incidentals are taken care of, then the listener can make judgments as to whether the system has that magic or not. "There are liars, damned liars and statisticians". (Mark Twain) Those who rely solely on measurements are statisticians. Measurements are only a tool, but a very valuable tool. At least in the process of building audio components, doing without measurements is going in blind.

Bob


Re: For the record :) [message #2556 is a reply to message #2555] Thu, 22 December 2005 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I'll buy that. I see it in this order; source/room/speaker/equipment. From the point of veiw of someone w/o an EE degree it seems that the parameters are so finely sliced that there is no way the results can have any intrinsic meaning left. I understand the roadmap concept but cannot define how ever more finely gauged models help produce viable and positive change.

Re: For the record :) [message #2558 is a reply to message #2554] Thu, 22 December 2005 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
elektratig is currently offline  elektratig
Messages: 348
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
MB,

Many of the cds I listen to are remakes of old mono recordings, often 78s. Most are classical and opera, and old-time country and blues, with some jazz. To the extent vinyl reissues of the same recordings exist, I don't have them and thus can't compare. But I will say that many are very well produced. Assuming care was taken in the production of the cd, I don't have a problem listening through the recordings and don't get tired of them. I don't know the series you're referring to, but my suggestion would be to get one and see how it strikes you.

Re: For the record :) [message #2559 is a reply to message #2556] Thu, 22 December 2005 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
Agreed!

One you get all of the graphs and charts laid out, the black arts take over. Some stuff you see you can fix, some you can't. Then you hear stuff that you can't see. The same goes for modeling. If you don't start with a good set of assumptions, you will never achieve a good design. I see it all of the time. Guys will come up with a reasonable FR plot and announce to the world how good it will be, but when you look at the design parameters, you know it will never work.

Modeling and measuring are just tools, and I need all of the help I can get, but in the end I have to sit down and listen.

Bob


Re: For the record :) [message #2560 is a reply to message #2559] Thu, 22 December 2005 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Black Arts; thats the tag line. I think that applies to any design process. In a perfect world we could design by measurement. Thats pretty much the extent of my knowledge concerning design. I give everyone doing the grunt work plenty of credit.


Re: For the record :) [message #2561 is a reply to message #2560] Thu, 22 December 2005 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
Actually, we design by modeling. The problem is that every model, by its very nature, is a simplification of reality. Simplification allows us to run the models on finite, limited computers. Simplification makes modeling possible, but soon or later, simplifications come back to bite you. Models always either diverge or blow up at the extremes.

Bob


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