Home » Audio » Speaker » The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ?
The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ? [message #24308] |
Sun, 04 May 2008 23:16 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
chris
Messages: 48 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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I sold my VMPS RM 40's, never could get them to sound right, no matter what I did. Of course, it is "My Fault", because the "putty wasn't right", etc, etc, etc .... They use a planar magnetic design invented, and abandoned by Eminent Technology. It is SAID that some Dragoslob Dude puts Neo magnets in them. I heard major problems in the VMPS RM 40, like voices coming out of 10 inch woofers. The design has two 10 inch woofers seperated by a LOT of distance. The VMPS midrange driver dont really like to play low, so the top 10" woofer is called on to play midrange. It rolls off up top slower then the bottom woofer, presumably to avoid interference effects ? But when I lowered the midrange level to match this woofers level, voices jumped to the TOP of the soundstage, LOL Like I said, the speakers are long gone, so no one is gonna "hurt" my feelings. IS there problems with these drivers, this speaker, or did I do something wrong. This VMPS adjustable putty/level crap reminds me of a freaking Carnival. The minute you actually WIN a stuffed animal, an excuse is made you cheated. This "adjustability" IMHO allows VMPS to place fault on their poor customers who "did not have the speaker adjusted properly" I am glad they are out of my life.
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Re: The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ? [message #24311 is a reply to message #24308] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 12:39 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Danny Richie
Messages: 36 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Your observations are spot on. The problems are not with the drivers. It was in the application of the drivers. I have used those drivers in designs recently (the planar drivers) and they are quite good when used in a proper application. http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=34&category_id=18&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37
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Re: The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ? [message #24315 is a reply to message #24314] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 20:00 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Danny Richie
Messages: 36 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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The low crossover point was one of the problems. Keeping the drivers acoustically in phase with one another was the other issue that they had. I crossed the planar mids in the 650Hz to 700Hz range and this was about as low as they really liked playing. This was also to a smaller woofer and with steeper slope than what was used in the VMPS speakers. So they didn't have phase related issues.
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Re: The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ? [message #24320 is a reply to message #24309] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 17:42 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
chris
Messages: 48 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Thanks Guys. Danny, I am not a speaker designer like you, Rick, Fred and Jim Griffin. But I always THOUGHT it took 2 drivers to make up a crossover slope ? If the VMPS Neo Driver only goes down to 400 to 800 hz, HTF does VMPS cross it so low ? The ORIGINAL VMPS RM 40 crossed at 166 hz. It ADVERTISED Ribbon from 166 HZ UP. Now, it crosses at 288 hz. But you crossovers guys, please help me out ? HTF can you cross over to a driver with almost NO output at 288 hz ? This would SEEM to me that the 10 inch woofer is playing the mid range, right ?Danny, you said you have experience with this driver, but HOW could you ? I thought VMPS had an exclusive on this driver from some Drago Dude ? I remember me talking to Bruce Thigpen about this driver, and the Neo magnets Drago put in it. Bruce designed the driver. He told me it was a fine balancing act between a lot of things, and a more powerful magnet was not always desirable ? So Danny, the driver is ok, but how it is used is the problem ? Jose, I see you have or had the RM 30's. I never heard them, but the RM 40's I was glad to see go. The RM 40's had a thin, disembodied sound, UNLESS I turned the midranges down, WAY down. Then, they became VERY inefficient, and voices jumped out of 10 inch woofers.
The adjustability of the VMPS product IMHO provides a convenient excuse for the poor performance I experienced. After all, IT WAS ME who couldn't get them right, LOL BTW, Brian had me BANNED from his forum when I started asking too many questions. I started playing/suggesting mods on the VMPS forum, TRYING to make the RM 40's more tolerable. Next thing I knew, I found myself banned by the owner of Audio Circles. I ONLY went on the VMPS Forum on Audio Circles, and Brian never complained about me, at least NOT to my face. He had the OWNER of Audio Circles send me a PM on Audio Circles in the VMPS forum. The OWNER of Audio Circles flamed me in a PM, NEVER identifying who he was. I Flamed him right back, presto, I was banned. I KNOW Brian Cheyney was behind this! I confronted him with this, and he denied it, but I ain't stupid. I said "Brian, it is YOUR Forum, and I am YOUR customer" Stick up for me. He did not. EVERYTHING I was Banned for happened in a PM between me and the owner of Audio Circles, who never identified, NOT out in public. It was all a big set up because I was QUESTIONING VMPS on his forum, LOL In MY mind, all I was doing was trying to get the POS VMPS RM 40's to sound right.
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Re: The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ? [message #24321 is a reply to message #24315] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 18:19 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
chris
Messages: 48 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Danny, VMPS stands for Veritone Minimun Phase Speakers. They pride themselves on their speakers being IN PHASE. I went to the link for the stratus mini, and see a very flat response. So, the drivers cant be that bad.I have YEARS of experience playing with equalizers. NOT to use them permanently, but to see what peaks and dips in different frequencies sounds like. I have noticed that a thinness in the 100 to 600 hz range makes speakers image all over the place, and provide a SUPER detailed sound. Unfortunately, it don't sound like music. I hear a HOLE in the VMPS RM 40's. I see a flawed speaker design. To FIX the VMPS RM 40's, here is what I WAS going to do. I was going to use two different 10 inch woofers to fit the "alignment", if you want to call it that, LOL Then, I was gonna use a Rane 24 db electric crossover. The vertical separation on the RM 40's two 10 inch woofers IS a PROBLEM. I think we calculated comb filtering above 250 hz ? I was gonna try experimenting with the crossover frequency, and steep slopes. I WAS talking about this when I got banned from VMPS Forums. Like they say Danny, "If you can't convince them with brilliance, baffle them with BS, and SUPRESS the truth"
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Re: The VMPS Neo Ribbon Driver - Anyone Ever Measure One ? [message #24328 is a reply to message #24320] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 19:14 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Danny Richie
Messages: 36 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Chris> "If the VMPS Neo Driver only goes down to 400 to 800 hz, HTF does VMPS cross it so low ? The ORIGINAL VMPS RM 40 crossed at 166 hz. It ADVERTISED Ribbon from 166 HZ UP. Now, it crosses at 288 hz. But you crossovers guys, please help me out ? HTF can you cross over to a driver with almost NO output at 288 hz ?"The short answer to the last question is that you can't, but I am guessing that you have already figured that out. Chris> "Danny, you said you have experience with this driver, but HOW could you ? I thought VMPS had an exclusive on this driver from some Drago Dude ?" Obviously the advertised exclusivity was exaggerated. I have a few of them in stock. There are actually a couple of companies that make them now. Chris> "So Danny, the driver is ok, but how it is used is the problem ?" I will confirm that it is a great driver. I think you already know the rest by now. I am really sorry to hear about your treatment, but if I gave you any advice it probably wouldn't go over too well, would it. And as Fred has suggested, you might want to keep your posting here more on line sources and less on all of that other stuff.
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Danny, WHAT is the lower limit of the VMPS Neo Midrange driver [message #24330 is a reply to message #24326] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 14:15 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
chris
Messages: 48 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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I see you do have experience with this RM 40 midrange, and the spiral ribbon tweeter. And I see that on the speakers you designed, another driver was added to cover the low range the ribbon seems unable to produce.So, in your opinion, HOW low can this midrange driver be used ? VMPS used to use this driver down to 166 hz, according to it's ads. Now, it is 288 hz. HERE is what I am asking Danny ? I am no crossover expert, just an audiophile. But I thought that to use a driver down to 166 hz, like VMPS used to do, it must be happy PLAYING an octave below that ? That would mean the VMPS NEO MIDRANGE DRIVER would have to play down to 80hz, maybe eveb receive some baffle support, huh ? Is what I beieve about a crossover correct ? OR Danny, can VMPS make it's 10 inch midrange driver perfectly fill in for the missing part of the crossover ? It is "said" the VMPS putty system adjusts the Q of the driver, well maybe so. But what would putty have to do with the roll off ? I THOUGHT the 10 inch VMPS midrange Drivers roll off was determined by magnets, cone type, etc, etc. HTF can Putty make a 10 inch midrange driver roll off differently.
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Re: Danny, WHAT is the lower limit of the VMPS Neo Midrange driver [message #24333 is a reply to message #24330] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 16:13 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) |
Danny Richie
Messages: 36 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Chris> "So, in your opinion, HOW low can this midrange driver be used ?" The Fs averages between 175Hz and 200Hz. So typically you shoot to cross it an octave above that or with a steep enough slope to have the output down about 20db before hitting it's Fs. Chris> "Is what I beieve about a crossover correct ?" I think you pretty much have it figured out by now. Chris> "But what would putty have to do with the roll off ?" Adding or taking away mass to a PR changes the Fs of the PR and changes the tuning frequency of the box. It will alter the bottom end of its range. It will not alter the upper end of the range. Also changing the mass a gram or two at a time is like changing the port length of a port by a fraction of an inch at a time. You won't hear a change.
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