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Re: OH.... [message #24088 is a reply to message #24086] Sat, 29 December 2007 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnyduce is currently offline  sunnyduce
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi Malboro
The four subs are not the for high SPl, but for improved in room responce.Four subs iddling sound far better then one vented box leaving its gap and farting away.Allways been partial to the sound of TL's.
Are you into experimenting? If so PM me and I send you some tweets to play with.I too started out with domes,but found them lacking in top-end when used in line arrays.Have planars now but think found somthing better yet.Not ready for the world yet but I would love to get another opinion.
Sunny

Re: OH.... [message #24089 is a reply to message #24088] Sat, 29 December 2007 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Sunny,

I'm into buying music and listening now. It took me 18 months to learn everything I needed to build them, and another 18 months to actually built them. I'm not into squeezing another 3% better out of them, that I might or might not hear at my age.

The synergy of the speakers required domes. I prefer the dome sound to other kinds of tweeters. 60 of them provide an unbelievable treble footprint that has to be heard to be experienced. 16 planars or ribbons simply don't match up.

Marlboro


Re: OH.... [message #24090 is a reply to message #24089] Sat, 29 December 2007 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnyduce is currently offline  sunnyduce
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi malboro
Yeah I hear you.Taken 40 years of building speakers to get where i am now.This is my fourth set of line array's.Previous set had 84 dome tweets per side.I offered these to you just to get a opinion from someone who has experience with line's.They are neither dome's nor ribbon's.Not trying to sell you anything.I give them to you and will pay shipping to where ever you live.
Sunny.

my arrays [message #24091 is a reply to message #24090] Mon, 31 December 2007 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Sunny,

Most people who build line arrays seem to want to do anything they can to keep the work down to 2-way. I don't understand this preference for building two way line array systems. A 2-way is a bad compromise in a point source, and I down see it as much better in a line array.

When people build two way line arrays they always have to compromise the tweeters because they have to now go what I consider TOO LOW. And they have to compromise the mid-range because they have to take it too low. To do this they end up with a too small quantity of 7 inch woofers, and a too small quantity of of planar tweeters. The line of reasoning then says that the mid range is not all that important if you have a quality treble and a quality bass. This has never been my experience. Most of the music content is in the 200hz to 2400hz area, at least most of the music content I listen to, which is jazz and classical and voice.

So for me, my 34 3.5 inch 3.3mm xmax midranges, and my 60 dome tweeters crossing at 165 and 2400 work just great for what I listen to. I connect them to a set of 15mm DVC xmax poly prop woofers which go down to about 30 hz, and power them with a separate 350 w/ch amp. They have more bass than I can use in my smallish 12 x 16 foot room.

Marlboro

Re: my arrays [message #24092 is a reply to message #24091] Mon, 31 December 2007 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnyduce is currently offline  sunnyduce
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi Marlboro
I could not agree more.I started my array venture with fullrange drivers,that peaked my interest.Then two way passive,5 1/4 with domes.On too active three way,life is good now.Better still too come.Four way active.Heaven is here.People might not believe it,but I am with you.We live in a midrange world.Now I am in seventh heaven with each driver having its own amp.Cheaper than one good big amp. Got the little amp modules from Hong Kong,no bigger than a pack of cigaretts.5 bucks each
7 watt output.It is a whole new level of performance.

I believe that wiring so many voice coils in series and parallel does
something funny to the sound,no mather how good your drivers are.What
I have now confirms this.
Sunny

MORE ON MIDRANGE IMPORTANCE [message #24093 is a reply to message #24091] Mon, 31 December 2007 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Sunny,

Along with the midrange discussion I had above, I also found it very important to give each midrange speaker its own completely separate enclosure. And when I say separate, I mean separate---not just a space in a part of a bigger box, but a completely "1/2 inch air space separated from its peers" enclosure. This completely eliminates any coloration caused by the other midrange speakers. Additionally each enclosure is a 23.5 inch pvc tube stuffed with dense 4 lb/cu foot fiberglass, wrapped in fiberfill battens. The tube forces the back wave through the tube and completely through 47 inches of fiberglass before it has to get back to the front of the speaker. The harmonics in the tube peak at add odd fundamentals. There is no even ordered harmonics in a tube.

Why this is good is this: when tube amplifiers overload they tend to produce lots of less objectionable but soft mushy sounding even ordered harmonic distortion. Odd ordered harmonics and distortion are the part of the sound which is clarifying, but in large quantities it sounds screeching. Since my midranges have to have their back sound go through 47 inches of fiberglass, and each one only has to handle 6.25% of the total sound volume, not much comes back through. But the part that does tends to give the speaker a more DEFINED CLARIFIED SOUND. This is essential with the mid range.

And since the distortion levels are low because of the percentage of the total bandwidth, and low because no woofer sounds or tweeters sounds are dragging it into clipping distortion, my midrange is very exceptionally super.

My opinion of course, but if one has not heard a midrange in this way,
on has no idea how important the midrange can be to the music, particularly those who have designed systems around ways which by their nature tend to compromise the whole midrange of the music---where all the fundamental tones of everything "I" listen to exist. Others who listen to lots of home theater with gun shots and explosions may not notice.

Marlboro

Re: MORE ON MIDRANGE IMPORTANCE [message #24094 is a reply to message #24093] Tue, 01 January 2008 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnyduce is currently offline  sunnyduce
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi marlboro

Sorry I could not interest you in some experiment.Others have contacted me.hopefully they will share with us there findings.Good chatting with you.Any thoughts on the series/parallel issue? Keep on listening.
Cheers.
Sunny.

experiments [message #24095 is a reply to message #24094] Tue, 01 January 2008 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Got no way to do the experiment without tearing everything apart. I'l have to move everything back from the wall. The tweeter connections are not readily accessible.

Don't know about the series/parallel issues. Do you have some etiology for how that might come about?

Marlboro

Re: experiments [message #24097 is a reply to message #24095] Tue, 01 January 2008 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnyduce is currently offline  sunnyduce
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi Marlboro
I started to notice this first when I rewired a MTM from parallel to series using the same drivers in the same boxes.trying to save money on the xover designs I was playing with.The parallel just sounded better and i believe that is of better control the amp has over the drive units wired this way.

I took this further with four 16 Ohm drivers.Adjusted for the same SPL level the four parallel just where somehow cleaner.Cant technically explain it but there is nothing wrong with my ears.
Cheers
Sunny

Re: my arrays [message #24098 is a reply to message #24092] Tue, 01 January 2008 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Tom R. is currently offline  Tom R.
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Seperate amps for each driver is an interesting concept. Do the tweeter array uses seperate amps for each unit?


Tom R.

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