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Rear Folded Horn Line Array [message #24073] Thu, 27 December 2007 10:14 Go to next message
Jeffery L is currently offline  Jeffery L
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I made a line array a little over a year ago with 8 cheap 4"x6" car audio speakers and from what I remember, 18 Onkyo 3/4" tweeters. They have a serious lack of low frequency response. I don't have any specs on the 4"x6"s.

I would like to build a rear folded horn array with the same speakers. Can any one offer any critiques or possible design ideas? I drew up some rough plans with approximately an 8 foot horn path with a horn mouth about 10" wide by 24" tall.

I don't know much about the physics behind horn design. With all the information out there it's all a little confusing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Rear Folded Horn Line Array [message #24074 is a reply to message #24073] Thu, 27 December 2007 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Where you want to go: the definitive source:

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/AutoTuba.html

Marlboro

Re: Rear Folded Horn Line Array [message #24075 is a reply to message #24074] Thu, 27 December 2007 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeffery L is currently offline  Jeffery L
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
What does the Auto Tuba have to do with it?

Or..... [message #24076 is a reply to message #24075] Thu, 27 December 2007 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Pile them on top of each other. Bingo you have a hi tech folded horn array.

Or if you don't want to do that, then the only person I know of who could advise on how to do an array of folded horns would have to be Bill.

Essentially..... I have an array of sealed mid-ranges. Each one is a sealed separate speaker piled on top of each other. Same for the tweeters. Why would woofers be any different? I would never even consider putting any of the individual speakers in an array in the same enclosure, that's COLORATION LUNACY!

Marlboro

Re: Rear Folded Horn Line Array [message #24077 is a reply to message #24073] Thu, 27 December 2007 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lcholke is currently offline  lcholke
Messages: 73
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Hi Jeffery,

Horns are tough. They require a lot of theory to design. The horn requires the horn length to be 1/4 the lowest wave length, so many of the designs that I have seen use a non horn for deep bass.

If you run 4 of the 10" x 24" horns, in a corner, the mouth cutoff will be 61 hz. An 8 ft 1/4 wave path has a 35 hz cutoff. (by the std equations)

http://www.dmcbean.bigblog.com.au - will provide hours of design fun http://www.audioroundtable.com/emoticons/winkie.gif

-Linc


Re: Or..... [message #24080 is a reply to message #24076] Fri, 28 December 2007 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeffery L is currently offline  Jeffery L
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
What I was thinking was to use the 8 - 4"x6" speakers as a direct radiating line array and use the back wave of the speakers to feed a rear loaded horn to help with the lower frequency response.

I haven't been able to find any information on a combination mid-low frequency line array, rear folded horn.

Marlboro, is this what you meant when you said it would be coloration lunacy?

I am not looking for a horn woofer array. I am toying with the idea of a dual 8" loaded Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba, if I need it.

OH.... [message #24081 is a reply to message #24080] Fri, 28 December 2007 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Jeffrey,

I didn't understand what you were trying to do. That's a pretty interesting concept. I've no idea whether it would work or not. Again, Bill Fitzmaurice would be the person to ask, I should think.

What I meant by coloration, is that to put a bunch of speakers in the same box means that their combined radiations will muddy the sound coming back through the front.

I used a separate enclosure for every speaker in my 34 speaker midrange part of the array. I used 4 lb cu ft fiberglass in tubes which eliminate most of the radiation coming back out the front. Tube enclosures eliminate muddy odd ordered harmonics by the physics of sound in tubes, so that only even ordered harmonics return through the front of the speaker, and in small quantities lend clarity not warm muddiness. The result is a line array with exceptional clarity in the midrange. I further augmented this by fixing it so that even electronically there was no chance to muddy up the mid range by having transients from the bass interfere with the waveform, since I tri- amped the system, and the woofers and tweeters have their own completely different amplifiers. Finally, I kept the midrange as sonically pure as possible by not breaking it up in the middle with a crossover. The midrange is covered from 165hz to 2500hz with the 34 mid range speakers.

Its was just how I put it together, but no one else has done this that I know of, and so from experience of they synergy of this, no one else knows how significantly all these parts fit together. This is what I meant when I was talking about coloration.

Marlboro

Re: OH.... [message #24083 is a reply to message #24081] Fri, 28 December 2007 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeffery L is currently offline  Jeffery L
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
From what I can tell it should work. I am having a mental conflict about the horn size and mouth area. How big of a deal are the speaker specs on a rear folded horn? How much midrange is the horn going to put out? How muddy is that sound going to be? Is there an effective way to dampen the midrange out of the horn section to ideally have more bass without the midrange coloration?

I am just wondering how big of a sound stage a line array with a front exiting horn section. This makes the boxes a total of 72 inches tall with the bottom of the box being a horn mouth at least 24 inches tall.

Line arrays already sound incredible for as cheap as my speakers are. What can a horn reinforced wave front do?

Re: OH.... [message #24084 is a reply to message #24081] Fri, 28 December 2007 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnyduce is currently offline  sunnyduce
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
hi Malboro
Time to chip in I guess.yep,I have done what you have,but one better.Gone fourway.{four}TL subs,tuned to 14Hz xover to a 12" sealed box at 63Hz.From there to the{16} sealed mids loaded in PVC pipe stuffed with wool at 330Hz then to the planars at 2800Hz.All this Controlled by 3DCX2496,3DEQX2496 and two FBD2496.Each driver has its own home brew amp.These stacks flank a 130" wide screen in my HT in my basement.When you hear this then you know the meaning of dynamics.Oh and did I mention that proper line array's do away with the center channel?When I find out how to post pics,I will send them.
Cheers
Sunny

Re: OH.... [message #24086 is a reply to message #24084] Fri, 28 December 2007 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
The size of my room is too small for that much bass!

Yeah.... no center channels wanted or needed.

Thanks for sharing.

Marlboro

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