"Actually, sometimes I think one might be better off builing a conventional speaker with really good drivers, rather then a line array with cheaper drivers, assuming the same budget.

"If you think you can take a bunch of 50 cent drivers and see God by constructing a line array, fine."

You've never actually built a line array, have you? You're just talking about it. You aren't aware of the characterisitcs of what multiple speakers do to FR, distortion, dynamic range, etc. If you'd actually built one using speakers that one would never use when there is only one(but now you've put 20 of them or 30 of them in a row, and electronically crossed them), you would know that what you are saying only has reference for those who must b elieve the bought the best and paid the most.

You do need to stick with either store bought, or with somebody's kit system. You don't want to be doing this on your own.

Marlboro

Sure, sometimes a cheap speaker will sound bad by itself, due to distortion, and an array of them can sound good.
But, all things being equal, an array of stellar drivers will sound better then an array of 49 cent MCM specials.

THAT is what I am saying.

Can we please get this thread back on track ?

I am NOT anti line array, quite the contrary.

Can we get back to looking at the problems I am having getting my speaker to sound right ?

I have two ten inch woofers seperated by about 54 inches center to center.

How far up can I take them in frequency at 24 DB per octave before interference patterns become severe ?

According to the wavelength calculator, that is one wavelength at 250 hz.

I read somewhere that speakers need to be crossed over BEFORE they are 1/2 wavelength apart.

That would mean I need to cross at 125 HZ ?

I can do that, but my ribbons will not go down there.

NOW I think I see why VMPS staggers the roll off of their woofers ?

I really did not want to go back to the stagger tuned woofers because I do not like the idea of part of my midrange being reproduced by a 10 inch woofer stuck high in the air.

I am sensitive to Image shifts, and when I have the levels of the main ribbons set low enough to blend with the woofers, I can sometimes here the Image "jump" up to that top woofer.

Dunleavy used widely spaced woofers in the SC 4, anyone know how he got away with it ?

One thing for sure, the low order crossover must go!

Man, you had to take a test panel of 4 midranges clear up to 700 hz to make it sound right ?

Did you ever measure the mids all by themselves ?

I wonder why they cross them in so low in their designs ?

I have played mine all by themselves, and hear very little output down low, but don't have test gear.

Give a chicken to 10 chefs and you have 10 different tasting chicken
soups. The trick when you DIY is to know how to make a competitive soup. lol

Before the budget array is built, I made a 1/4 scale model to
test the synergy of PT2 and 4" midwoofers. I determined that there
is potential to make a good sound system from this simple scaled down
test.

Later, after the big array was built, optimized, the sound is
much more amazing than my scaled down model. The reasons why it's
better sounding is it has much lower distortion at the same SPL as
the scale model.

I'm all for using high end drivers if your budget allows. I just
don't see anything special with the monsoon drivers.

Is this a three way? At 54 inches apart you cannot cross any higher than 251, and if you want to be 24 db down, then one octave below that which would entail a crossover of 125hz.

But you'll be 18db down at 160 or so. Will you be able to actually hear comb filter distortion that low? I don't know.

Its like the argument for using 20 Aurum Cantus mid ranges rather than 20 Dayton midranges. When you've cut the quantity of sound that the speaker has to play to only 5% of the total, will you actually be able to hear a difference between the two? I doubt it. Manu a Manu, no question; 20 vs 20, fat chance!

Thylantyr and I agree. The world of line arrays is very different than the world of individual speakers with have to deal with thermal compression, mechanical compression, and other issues that the line array eliminates.

If you are going with an array of woofers, I'd go for 5 12 inchers like Parts Express has on buyout now(http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-776). For $200) Now you have a 17 inch c-to-c. You can cross at 300-500 without any comb filter distortion issues at all.

Marlboro

That is why I asked if anyone had ever tested this driver, before I invest considerable time in trying to get these to sound like I want em to.

If the driver just isn't very good to begin with, having gross peaks and dips, or weird distortion or ringing, resonances, etc, etc, then someone may be able to save me considerable time and effort in trying to get a crossover right, only to find the driver itself is flawed ?

And MAYBE the driver really is all VMPS claims it is, and my problems are just getting the crossover right ?

I am NOT against inexpensive solutions to stuff, and think there are low cost drivers thhat have been overloked that will perform well.

I like how you cut the faceplates on your tweeters.

I BET that array sounds nice!

I have these VMPS RM 40 speakers that I am TRYING to make work for me.

The woofers cross at 200 hz right now in mine at 6 db per octave.

I am stuck with the 54 inch spacing.

Just for kicks, I might simply unhook the stock crossover, leaving the tweeter crossover, and bi amp them with the Rane ?

Then, I could simply move the crossover point up and down till they sound better ?

In the stock RM 40, the two 10 inch drivers roll off at different points.

Right now, I have two of the same woofers in each one, and their roll off is the same.

I have a 12 inch GoldSOUND 15.2 mm Xmax DVC rated 250 rms woofer on both sides. Currently they are only in only 2.7 cu ft boxes which are really too small. But they are attached to a 350 w/ch Linear Tech power amp, and put out plenty of bass for anything I need. While I'd like to enlarge their boxes to 7 cu ft each, I wonder if I really need it. Usually I have to keep the woofer balance back by turning down the volume control on the woofer amp to no more than 1:00 or they overwhelm the rest of the system. I've never turned it up past 3:00.

Marlboro

If you saw a picture of it, you would know what I mean.

If you ever saw a Dunleavy sc 4, it has stacked woofers that play well up into the midrange.

My midrange drivers do not go down real low.

Hey, does Goldsound make 15 inch woofers, where did you get them at >