Home » Audio » Speaker » Anybody want to build a DIY IDS-25 clone (somewhat cheaply)?
Re: Replies for all that have replied so far... [message #23555 is a reply to message #23548] Thu, 15 March 2007 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric is currently offline  Eric
Messages: 34
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi Aaron. I built a pair of 7ft arrays w/25 of the HiVi drivers and a Beh. 2496. All who hear it are impressed. It is a very live performance sound. Making the listener seem about 2 feet tall.The 24/96 has graphic as well as parametric eq. I canot seem to stop playing with the EQ. I save all of the profiles once I get one I like. I have had it "perfect.. now leave it alone" about 30 times or so. The bass is boosted several times between the graphic and multiple parametric setings. As is the high end, but not so much. It's cool. It's inexpensive, and it looks amazing. It makes great bass. I'll send pics if you want them. They have sold me on the array concept. Like always, I want to move on, to a Selah array next, I think.

Re: Replies for all that have replied so far... [message #23556 is a reply to message #23555] Thu, 15 March 2007 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron D is currently offline  Aaron D
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I'd love to see pics. Post links on here if you can, I'm sure others would like to see what you have. As straight forward as the IDS concept is I think it could be designed a little less "plainly". I have a few ideas but there is only so much one can do w/ a tall skinny built on a base.

Aaron

Re: Anybody want to build a DIY IDS-25 clone (somewhat cheaply)? [message #23558 is a reply to message #23553] Thu, 15 March 2007 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron D is currently offline  Aaron D
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I have kind of thought about something along those lines. For now I am mostly considering a design that will easily allow that as an option later on. If anything I am going to experiment w/ a single Fountek JP 3.0 per side. It will not give me true array performance but it will give a good idea of the high frequencies that I might be missing compared to no tweeter(s) at all. I think it will be a very effective demo but only at a given height and distance.

I could easliy add a tweeter "panel" later on. Lots of things to consider...

Ideally I would like to have these in my bedroom and build something very nice for the living room. I am trying to not get too carried away.

Thanks,
Aaron



Speaking of Darren's project... [message #23559 is a reply to message #23543] Thu, 15 March 2007 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron D is currently offline  Aaron D
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor

After looking at it again I remembered something that puzzled me a while back. How come the highs roll off like they do. It says in the text that a single driver measurement does not show the same behavior. I know drivers behave differently in arrays but I thought one of the effects was to actually flatten the response compared to a single driver. What gives?

Thanks,
Aaron



its a bias.... [message #23560 is a reply to message #23558] Fri, 16 March 2007 05:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
My problem with a line array is the expense and the build time.

Because of my desire to build using the benefits of tubing as opposed to boxes, and the need for each midrange to have its own separate but equal enclosure, the build time on my system was two years of weekends. I'm talking about 200 man hours.

So when I think of arrays, I can't imagine NOT building the best possible circumstance for the money that I'm spending on speakers, due entirely to the vast amount of time it took to built them.

Its a bias, I know.

Re: Speaking of Darren's project... [message #23561 is a reply to message #23559] Fri, 16 March 2007 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Rolloff up high is from comb filtering, which is caused by interference between drivers. Below the frequency where that begins to happen, each driver's output sums together. The summing averages the response of the drivers and the reflections in the room. This averaging effect greatly reduces the cancellations that result from room reflections compared to a single omnidirectional point source, particularly the notches caused by floor and ceiling bounce.


Re: its a bias.... [message #23562 is a reply to message #23560] Fri, 16 March 2007 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

That's how I feel about folded basshorns also. I would never build a "budget" basshorn with a cheap driver and cheap wood. The cost of a folded horn cabinet is significant because it is labor intensive. It doesn't make sense to build one with cheap parts, because the amount of labor is high. Even if a DIY project, if you value your time at all, don't skimp on the rest of it.


My bias [message #23565 is a reply to message #23560] Fri, 16 March 2007 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I don't think its necessary to purchase the best speakers in a line array since, as Bill Fitzmaurice says, almost every speaker is pretty flat at low volume. So, when you use a lot of them, the flatness at low volume stays, since you have so many to cover the frequency ranges.

I think you can design a quality array using Dayton Neo 20FA tweeters. I did, and I used 60 of them total. That's a huge number of tweeters to spread the sound through. I you use 8 planars on a side, that is a far cry from 30 domes, per side.

Additionally, if you use a midrange that retailed for 12-20 bucks each, again you will get high quality sound since EACH they don't have to play loudly. My Sammi's were a great buyout at $3.50 from a regularly priced model of 12-18 bucks(you don't get a 10 oz magnet and an X-max of 3.6 mm for 49 cents!). Other companies besides PE that also participated in the buyouts are now selling them for 7-10 bucks each. Fine little speakers. Going below those levels may get you an OK system, but below the level that I would consider appropriate for all the work involved. Buying a 49 cent NSB midrange is not appropriate for all the work involved in my opinion.

Always compare the quality to what you already have. I did.

Marlboro

I can agree w/ you for the most part [message #23570 is a reply to message #23565] Sat, 17 March 2007 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron D is currently offline  Aaron D
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
A design of this type can be fairly labor intensive. That is the whole reason I am not building a Selah kit for now. I could build it in a more or less standard fashion but for what the drivers alone cost I feel obligated to go all out on it.

In the meantime this seemed like a fairly straight forward project that would not cost much for the performance achieved. A lot of the bang of the buck came from the fact that this is a buyout driver and is probably a decent deal @ the $10.50/each price. If I get 100 of the the price drops over 40%. Couple this with a decently built enclosure (nothing over the top) and the price is about $350/pair. I agree with you about factoring in cost/effort/performance in any project. In something like this I can make some compromises dues to the lower cost and simple enclosure construction. I still think the performance would be impressive but I am doubtful that it would be amazing. For amazing performance I know I will have to spend $2k+ on a Selah kit.

Later,
Aaron

nvxqxbgl [message #23643 is a reply to message #23538] Mon, 23 April 2007 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
nvxqxbgl is currently offline  nvxqxbgl
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2009
Esquire

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