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Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23465] Thu, 22 February 2007 07:56 Go to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I'll start.

I’ve chosen to build a design that uses the full line of tweeters and line of woofers. I’ve also built it using Dayton ND20A ¾ inch neo tweeters, which I have cut the flanges to reduce comb filtering distortion to beyond 14,000hz. I have a word picture document that shows how I did that available by email. Since I’m using Neo dome tweeters, I’m also using original $17 Korean Sammi 3.5 inch mini-woofers which go down to about 100hz. The Sammi’s have a 3.5 mm xmax, exceptionally large for a 3 inch speaker. The crossover for the Sammi’s is 165hz and about 2600hz. I’m using 17 Sammi’s per side which go from about 6 inches of the floor to about 3 inches from the ceiling. Each Sammi is encased in its own sealed 23.5 inch pvc pipe, and stuffed with 4 lb/cu foot fiberglass fill. The tweeter line is 33 inches long, and involves 30 Dayton Neos per side. I have supplemented the two floor to ceiling arrays with a separate 12 inch DVC 15 mm xmax woofer for each side. Currently its in the 2.5 cu foot vented box of my previous speaker system. But I am building a 8.5 cu foot sonotube column design for them, which will lower the bass to about 17hz.

The system is Quad amped. Using RMS numbers, the tweeter amp is rated at 65 w/ch, the midrange/mid woofers amp is rated at 250 w/ch, and the 2 separate woofer amps are rated at 350 w/ch. I use a Rane 3 way electronic crossover with time delay, and a DOD constant Q equalizer. I have an Apex 220, and Macintosh Fuzzbuster sound graphing software to balance the system crossovers and equalization. The system is not Tapered. In my opinion most actual live music settings that are not in huge halls or outside exhibit wide vertical soundstage bloom, so having it in my own setting brings more of a live performance into the room. The system is designed to operate entirely in the near field for listening. Regular seating is about 9 feet from the speakers which keeps the tweeter array in the near field also.

I listen mostly to classical, including organ, with some rock, folk, Celtic, and blues. I avoid Rapp and most Jazz.

What does your line array look like?

Marlboro


Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23466 is a reply to message #23465] Thu, 22 February 2007 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric is currently offline  Eric
Messages: 34
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Great Thread Marlboro Man.
My array is an attempt to recreate the Russell design that I saw at RMAF. There have been many postings regarding his lines, most folks think it sucks. I am not one of them. His articles are published and give away the recipe, as it were. I am using 25 HiVi B3S full range drivers per column. I got the drivers for aruond 5.50/ea., so it's not really surgically removing my wallet to do this. The enclosures are basic: mitered wedge shaped using MDF well braced and stuffed with glass batts all the way. The boxes are right at 2cf, but I reduced that to 1.7-ish with some more mdf in the bottom of the columns. Much better at 1.7cf. The lines are right at 7ft tall. I covered the entire baffle with 2mm closed cell foam sheet via spray adhesive, then installed the drivers. It looks great, and seals like a champ. I am currently forcing them into full range using a Behringer DEQ2496. A very cool device. The limiter and dynamic EQ are wonderful inaddition to the graphic and parametric EQ's. They do measure 20hz - 18.5khz. Now, I like them quite a bit. They look very impressive, and sound good enough for most. They really like being right up against the wall, though. They are close to being done. I have only to attach some Sonus Faber style radiused side panels with a beautiful veneer of some sort and a metal mesh grille. And they are for sale.

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23467 is a reply to message #23466] Thu, 22 February 2007 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Eric,

What's the frequency response look like without the equalizer? 25 of them should smooth it pretty well without equalization to begin with.

I would have like to use 25 of the Sammi's, but I also wanted them to be in individual sealed tubes for all the benefits of tube enclosures. That meant 4 inch tubes, and a space between the tubes.

Marlboro

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23468 is a reply to message #23467] Thu, 22 February 2007 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric is currently offline  Eric
Messages: 34
Registered: May 2009
Baron
It is indeed smooth. About 10db up from 110 - 10khz. I use the EQ to actually bring the mids down a touch, the boost the u know what out of the LF. Alsmot 30db in the 20hz region. Freaky eh? Somewhat less up top. Regarding your tubes, have you checked on using cardboard ones? Like the style used in paper towels? I use them for port tubes all the time, they work rather well. Just seal them up with whatever... spray paint, etc. You can calculate your volume then squish them whichever way you want, right? Plug the ends with tapered chunks of MDF using a circle cutter on your drill press... off you go!

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23469 is a reply to message #23468] Thu, 22 February 2007 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
RE the tubes. In the array the tubes are also part of the structure of the system, and its essentially that they be very rigid, so PVC tubes work best. They are also visible.

But since I'm also building the woofers using sonotubes and those are essentially pressed cardboard about 1/8 inch thick. They'll have a mdf and hardwood top and bottom looking like a greek pedestal. I'll be using a series of MDF pieces sliced and glued together with a hole cut in the center for the woofers.

Marlboro

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23470 is a reply to message #23466] Fri, 23 February 2007 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
"My array is an attempt to recreate the Russell design that I saw at RMAF. There have been many postings regarding his lines, most folks think it sucks. I am not one of them".

I heard the Russell arrays at RMAF and I don't think they suck either. I found myself drawn into the music, especially if it was highly dynamic music, and they were good with the softer stuff too. I suspect pulling them out from the wall would have enhanced the soundstage depth too. I wouldn't pay $19K for them given the other arrays that are available at and below that price, and would choose a two way with ribbon tweeters instead. But I still believe this would be a great sounding speaker for the price if you DIY it, and I've been tempted to build a pair using Tang Band drivers. Only problem is I would have to sell a pair of Theater Three Pi's to make room for them, and I can't bear to part with the Three Pi's.

My present reference arrays are the Selah Audio XT-8's in a ported configuration. I have heard speakers that have greater resolution along with more authoritative and extended bass (Wilson, JM Labs, Acapella, Garshman Acoustics, etc), but I haven't heard anything I would prefer to have in my listening room more than the XT-8's.

My "fun" arrays are the silly cheap ART arrays that are described elsewhere on this forum. All I can say about these is that you have to hear them to appreciate how good $350 can sound, especially with a low power tube amp.

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23471 is a reply to message #23465] Fri, 23 February 2007 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick Craig is currently offline  Rick Craig
Messages: 115
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Going to Texas - an array with nine Accuton C82's and eight Fountek ribbons per side

Marlboro Tubes [message #23472 is a reply to message #23469] Fri, 23 February 2007 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric is currently offline  Eric
Messages: 34
Registered: May 2009
Baron
It's funny, this audio thing. Now that you have explained it, I really am looking for entirely impractical ways to apply the principle of using tubes. Have you heard of a material called Ardex? It's basically a plasicised PVC that shapes, carves, trowells - whatever - like buttah! Oh yeah, it's solid like concrete when it cures. Such a beautiful material. I get it at HD Supply/White Cap. Anyway, thinking of cardbord tubing up then spraying ardex on like stucco. Could be a hideously beautiful thing. Send me some drwings of your Athenian Array !

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23478 is a reply to message #23465] Mon, 26 February 2007 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ivor the Engine Driver is currently offline  Ivor the Engine Driver
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I'm trying to develop a passive XOed version of an active XOed and equalized, open baffle array I built a few winters ago. It uses a 48-inch line of Dayton 3/4 Neo tweets(ND20FB -- the rear mount) and the old PartsExpress NSBs, with two 10-inch Peerless woofs in a push/pull configuration. I want to be able to do a direct comparison between the passive and active versions. Both are U-baffles. The active uses Behringer electronics, 2 AB International amps and one Yamaha 2200 amp.

Early results lead me to believe I can make the passive version sound just as good, if not better than the active pair, with a less complex crossover than I'd anticipated, with the XOs at 500/3200. Of course, I might as well weld the speakers into place, because it won't take much movement to require a re-engineering of the crossover.

Ultimately, I'd like to be able to build some room treatments and see if I can leave the XO the same, but be able to move the arrays into different rooms and achieve acceptable sound by tweaking only the various traps and diffusers.

Re: Tell Us About the Array you built or are building...... [message #23479 is a reply to message #23478] Mon, 26 February 2007 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ivor the Engine Driver is currently offline  Ivor the Engine Driver
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
p.s. I'm driving the passive arrays with a Carver M500t.

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