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Rocky Mountain Show [message #23247] Tue, 24 October 2006 10:24 Go to next message
slinco is currently offline  slinco
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I was wondering if anyone on this forum attended the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival, and if so, what were your impressions of Rodger Russell's new array, the IDS-25. There's been some discussion on various forums about why they shouldn't work well (comb filtering problems), and I was hoping someone here would share their impressions.

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23248 is a reply to message #23247] Tue, 24 October 2006 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Griffin is currently offline  Jim Griffin
Messages: 232
Registered: May 2009
Master
Read the exchange that Fred Thompson and I had about the IDS25 in the General forum on this site. Fred attended the show and he owns a set of Selah Audio line arrays so I value his comments.

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23250 is a reply to message #23248] Fri, 27 October 2006 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slinco is currently offline  slinco
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Thanks a lot Jim. Here's a couple of other opinions I just found that you might be interested in. Looks like comb filtering may be less of a problem in real life than we think, which could open up some new thinking....

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23251 is a reply to message #23250] Fri, 27 October 2006 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
From the responses, it seems as if the spontaneous reviewers had never ever experienced any kind of an array before. It seemed like they never saw one at all, like it was an alient that arrived from somewhere.

One can only wonder how they might have talked if they'd had an opportunity to hear one that is electronically crossed, with a separate tweeter and woofer section.

There is no wide range speaker that can do much more than 300 to 13,000hz adequately. What if they'd had a chance to hear real bass and real highs rather than just a mid range exposition?

It does go to show how much an array can do even configured with inadequate speakers. Thylantyr has an amazing array where he used 49 cent midranges.

Marlboro

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23253 is a reply to message #23251] Fri, 27 October 2006 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slinco is currently offline  slinco
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Marlboro -
Unlike you, I reserve judgment on a speaker until I hear it. Especialy one that's new and different.

The point of my previous post was that PERHAPS comb filtering in an array of 3 1/2 inch drivers isn't as big a deal as the THEORY would have us believe. If people with good ears (Fred Thompson for one) find that THAT PART of the design seems sound, then that's an interesting development, don't you think? As far as whether the other folks had "ever experienced an array before", what the heck does that matter - good sound is good sound, isn't it?

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23254 is a reply to message #23253] Fri, 27 October 2006 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
What? Unlike I what?

As to the 3.5 inch arrays and Russel you should go down the cue and read some of the previous discussion on Russel's array, and also some of the obvious lack of connection about the progress in building arrays.

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Do you actually have an array? Have you actually built one? Or have you just listened to Russel's anemic variation at the show? I've actually spoken to several people who either ignored Jim's advice or who decided not to follow it. I dfidn't take the chance with mine. It does have comb filtering but it out near 17,000hz, which is at the limit of my hearing. The people I've spoken to have talked about the lack of sharpness and other warbly terms for their arrays. Have you actually seen the FR of arrays with bad comb filtering?

Its not theory; its reality.

Marlboro

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23255 is a reply to message #23254] Fri, 27 October 2006 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slinco is currently offline  slinco
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Easy brother, you're harshing my mellow. Of course comb filtering is reality, we all know that because it's measurable. The question is, does it make a difference in THE LISTENING. This highly controversial Russell design has been the subject of much discusion on various forums, and I for one think it's very interesting to see what people who heard it at the show thought of it. So far, all the reports are positive, and I find that intriguing. Obviously you don't. Anyone else care to weigh in?

I'm sure they sound great; I don't doubt that. [message #23256 is a reply to message #23255] Fri, 27 October 2006 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro
Messages: 403
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
You're not listening.

I've made it clear that you can have a pretty dynamic set of sounding speaker from a 50 speaker 3.5 inch array. I've no doubt that they sound great. Geez!! My own array with the 17- 3.5 inch wide range speakers per channel sounded fabulous. But then I added the 30 Dayton Neo tweeters perr channel, and the high end that I thought sound great with just the 3 inchers suddenly seemed dead without the tweeters, and then I added the two 12 inch DVC 15 mm Xmax woofers and the bass was also fab. And my total system including the electronic crossovers, the pre-amp, and the 3 power amps, and constant Q equalizer, didn't exceed about $1700. No where near 18,000 bucks.

Does anyone know what brand 3.5 inchers he's using for them?

Marlboro

Re: Rocky Mountain Show [message #23257 is a reply to message #23255] Fri, 27 October 2006 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Griffin is currently offline  Jim Griffin
Messages: 232
Registered: May 2009
Master
In the discussion on this subject in the general forum in the AudioRoundTable I asked Fred Thompson for additional comments on his listening at RMAF. You might like to read what he said in the link below and perhaps even read above and below this message if you are inclined.

Re: I'm sure they sound great; I don't doubt that. [message #23258 is a reply to message #23256] Fri, 27 October 2006 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Jim Griffin is currently offline  Jim Griffin
Messages: 232
Registered: May 2009
Master
The IDS25 use the Tymphany Peerless V-line (or just Vifa) TG9FSD10-08 3.5" full range (at least to 15,000 Hz) drivers. These are listed as obsolete discontinued on the Tymphany site.

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