Home » Audio » General » Copyright laws and CD's
I'm not really a ......... [message #2265 is a reply to message #2263] Thu, 29 September 2005 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
lawyer, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express. What are you smokin'?

Re: I'm not really a ......... [message #2266 is a reply to message #2265] Thu, 29 September 2005 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
What part don't you get; I can explain it.
If someone has the right to say what can be done with a piece of art such as a CD of music; then by virtue of having a say in how that art is used he has rights over that art. Copyright law says that when you purchase a CD you do not get to own the music on that CD; it belongs to the artist.
You can play it but that is all; you can't do anything else with it. You can't sell it if you have made a copy of it/copy it/play it for others if there is a cover charge/change it in any way etc. All you are allowed to do with that CD is play it for yourself. So if you cannot own the music on the CD then what theoretically would happen if for some reason the artist decides he does not want that art out in the world anymore? Is he locked into hearing his art played in a way he doesn't like forever? He has the right under Copyright law to adapt the piece.
If the definition of owning something is that you have the right to decide how it is used and by whom and where it is used; then by all rights the artist who adapts that work should have the right to rescind that art and have it returned or destroyed. If we were talking about a painting or a photo-graph it would then be covered by the Doctrine Of Fair Use which gives the right to sell or give away the art to another who then can sell or give away the art again.

Stereophile has a three part article concerning copyright that spells out exactly what rights the artist has and you have. After reading it I thought about what would happen if the artist wished to recall the music performance on that CD.

While it obviously sounds kooky the fact is he owns the music on that CD. So I pondered the effect of taking that concept to the extreme.
No big deal.

Re: Copyright laws and CD's [message #2267 is a reply to message #2264] Thu, 29 September 2005 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I was more concerned about the legal concept of negative use. Where while the artist owns the performance his rights only extend to those rights that prevent others from doing something. However he does have the right to adapt the work. So I considered where should he decide to excersize that right to adapt and change the work; what would happen if he wanted to rescind the original work and demand it's return. Since technically if the work is adapted it no longer conforms to the original copyright.
Had a lot of time on my hands today. Took a break from studying the Cardiac Conductive System.

Re: Copyright laws and CD's [message #2268 is a reply to message #2267] Thu, 29 September 2005 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

A person that purchases a CD can play it for their own personal use, but they can't use it for profit, put on shows, sell copies, whatever. The copyright owner has the right to all aspects of the commercial use of his work, and he has the right to refuse to allow it to be used where he doesn't want it to be used.

Adapted works are another thing altogether. You might want to look into "fair use" and "parody" and how they relate to copyrights.


Re: I'm not really a ......... [message #2269 is a reply to message #2266] Thu, 29 September 2005 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

When you buy a CD, you own the CD. The copyright owner has no right to reclaim that particular CD, but he does have a right to restrict your use of it. The rights of the owner of the CD are pretty clear - He can play it for personal enjoyment. He can't use it for commercial use.

It doesn't matter if the owner of the CD thinks the work is underutilized or not, the copyright owner is who ultimately has the right to decide whether it should be played publically. So if the copyright owner decided he wanted the work to be silenced, he has that right. The owner of the CD would still have the right to use the CD privately, but he never had the right to promote it publically, so no "rights" would have been rescinded.

"Fair Use" is a different issue. It has nothing to do with selling a single copy of a work that was purchased, like transferring title of a used car. "Fair Use" is the ability to talk about a copyrighted work, to maybe even quote parts of it or make a likeness of a copyrighted work, such as a parody.


Re: I'm not really a ......... [message #2270 is a reply to message #2269] Fri, 30 September 2005 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
They claim in their description that it is Fair Use that allows you to sell an artists work to another without getting permission from the artist. It does those things you say; allow portions of a work to be used in ways you describe, but it also is the reason an artist cannot prevent you from selling your copy of his art to someone else without recrimination.

Re: Copyright laws and CD's [message #2271 is a reply to message #2268] Fri, 30 September 2005 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Thats my point; if he can refuse to allow it to be used where he doesn't want it used; and since he has the right under copyright to adapt or alter the performance we return to my original thought; what is his legal ability to control the music on his CD if he decides to re-call that piece in favor of an adaption of the piece.
Hey; maybe this was never broached yet.

One rea$on it'll never happen [message #2272 is a reply to message #2271] Fri, 30 September 2005 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
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Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
What do you think it would cost to locate and seize a single CD?

Re: One rea$on it'll never happen [message #2273 is a reply to message #2272] Fri, 30 September 2005 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well; it's a thought experiment, like they do in particle physics. It was never meant to be taken literally. Of course they would never attempt to seize a single CD; unless it was a Bo Brice CD.
I only meant to explore the possibilities that could occur with this tangled web of poorly written digital copyright body of law.

Re: Copyright laws and CD's [message #2274 is a reply to message #2267] Fri, 30 September 2005 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
What if... a cd was being played at a party. and the bad/artist/riaa did not like this. What is that party had an admission fee which so many high school or college kids do today? Could something like this be misconstrued. charges made against the home owner who rented the apartment. Charging a college that owns the dorm?

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