Home » Audio » Speaker » FredT -MLTL Bipole speaker impressions
Re: Line Array Speakers [message #21613 is a reply to message #21612] Wed, 28 June 2006 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I'm not sure I understand the question. Could you take it to the Array forum, where I'm sure some of the array gurus can help me answer it.

Re: Line Array Speakers [message #21614 is a reply to message #21613] Wed, 28 June 2006 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I tried Fred but it doesn't translate well. In simple terms the Selah that you like and use as your reference are 4K$ in kit form.
To a guy looking to spend 4K$; there are vast possibilities of some great speakers. The comparisons you made were with much less expensive offerings. Out of curiousity I just wondered whether you had any thoughts about comparing examples of kits in that same price range and how they stacked up in terms of sound quality.
I like the array presentation; but in the 4K$ range it would be a difficult descision for me. I wondered how you felt about that.
I only asked because you seemed open to sharing your thoughts on that.

Re: Line Array Speakers [message #21615 is a reply to message #21614] Fri, 30 June 2006 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I responded in the Line Array forum. Hope this information helps.

having a bipolar moment [message #21616 is a reply to message #21611] Sun, 02 July 2006 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duke is currently offline  Duke
Messages: 297
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Hi Jim,

Congrats on your simple & elegant new design!

I like the bipolar format a lot, though it's seldom used in a high end commercial system. I also really like your driver choice. Very intelligent, going with drivers that have a long x-max. Instead of going all-out for efficiency in your driver selection, you traded off some efficiency for bandwidth. Once again, I think that's the right choice - adequate bandwidth comes first in my book.

The challenge a bipole has competing in the marketplace is mostly one of customer perception. People don't like the idea that half of the money going into drivers is "wasted" on drivers that face the "wrong direction". And on a more objective basis, can the bipole compete with an equal dollar amount of forward facing drivers?

Having built a few experimental bipoles myself, I think the format can be sonically competitive with its dollar equivalent in forward-facing drivers. It's a somewhat different presentation than what you get from forward-facing-only drivers - in some ways better and in some ways worse. But in my opinion it's a very valid way of taking several big steps in the right direction.

Duke

Re: having a bipolar moment [message #21617 is a reply to message #21616] Sun, 02 July 2006 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Griffin is currently offline  Jim Griffin
Messages: 232
Registered: May 2009
Master
Duke,

Thanks for the post. Yes, a bipolar does have some applicablity in the world of monopolar boxes and open baffle (dipole) designs. For example, Genesis uses a stereo polar line array woofer stack with a open back dipolar mid/tweeter line array arrangement in a high dollar four box model (they demo'ed this design at the RMAF last fall). A few other commercial speakers use the bipolar concept but they are rare. Too often the bean counters kill multiple driver designs as designers have to compromise what may be a better acoustic solution to satisfy a targeted selling price.

As you suspect, the bipolar solution in my case was an attempt to squeeze as much sensitivity from this driver as I could as it is biased toward low end extension and wide bandwidth. I used the narrow width box and MLTL design to enhance the bass within a small floor space enclosure--more WAF was my goal. The bipolar was intended to handle the baffle step compensation while maintaining the sensitivity as high as I could.

I'll try to hear your new bipolar creation in the near future.

Thanks.

Jim

Audio Nirvana Driver Review [message #21618 is a reply to message #21606] Mon, 03 July 2006 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I noticed TNT Audio did a review of the AN speakers in the recommended ported enclosure. Intersting frequency response graphs: 60hz to 12khz, +6/-12dB. Now I understand why Bob's FT-1600 MLTL's with Fostex drivers sound better.

Re: Audio Nirvana Driver Review [message #21619 is a reply to message #21618] Mon, 03 July 2006 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
I've read this review before. I'm sorry, I found it laughable. Goeff Husband seems to have no clue about the physics of audio, and just from appearances, his FR plots seem to have been generated with an SPL meter and a test CD. Well, read the article. I am also amused at the choice of boxes, David Dicks' 2.8 cabinet. But look at the 2.8 on Dicks' site. It uses TWO 8" Lowther drivers. Husband's version uses ONE AN8. Could this explain some of the FR problems?

I was amused that Husband wondered if Dicks' box was acting more like a MLTL than a BR. This is one of the few things he actually got right. Of course it's a MLTL. A badly designed MLTL, but a MLTL nevertheless. This helps to explain the hideous FR plot that Husband got. Not to brag, but I get deeper bass out of my FT-1600's with 6" Fostex than Dicks/Husband get with his 8" AN.

OK, OK. I'll stop now.

Bob


Re: having a bipolar moment [message #21620 is a reply to message #21616] Tue, 04 July 2006 19:44 Go to previous message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I wanted to learn more about this so I Googled "bipolar". This is serious stuff. For an even more interesting read, Google the word "failure" and click on "I'm feeling lucky".

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