Home » Audio » Speaker » A little article about a BLH....why go to the trouble.....
Re: Horns, transmission lines and reflex cabinets [message #21245 is a reply to message #21187] Thu, 18 August 2005 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris K is currently offline  Chris K
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Wayne Parham wrote:
"The thing is, average SPL is not increased whether using a backhorn, transmission line or reflex cabinet. They all boost bass output only. So all of these types of loudspeakers have basically the same maximum SPL limit."
I'm an admitted "novice" at understanding the finer points of horn theory. However, wouldn't the acoustic "resistance" of the horn loading the bass frequencies that have great amounts of electrical energy being fed to the voice coil, provide the amplifier with a corresponding inductive electrical resistance at those low frequencies, thus leaving the amp more "juice" for higher SPLs? All the while the horn mouth providing the needed "area" of air movement (albeit reduced amplitude) thus giving the bass needed boost. In other words my feeling is that if you physically retrained a speaker cone from movement (damped) you could put more power from a low powered tube amp to the coil and have that physical resistance "unload" the amp of its current requirement in that low band of frequencies saving power for the upper audible band. Is this a valid point of view to you "experts" here?

Re: Horns, transmission lines and reflex cabinets [message #21246 is a reply to message #21245] Thu, 18 August 2005 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Look at it this way. Lets say the speaker isn't excursion limited. Lets say that the horn actually reduces excursion to zero, and it stays that way through the entire bass range. That would be cool, 'cause it would stop IMD. But midrange and treble output would still be provided as direct radiation from the driver. So that sets your SPL limit. You certainly wouldn't want to have the bass range boosted above the midrange and treble.

Now look at the real world. Even a very good horn has excursion peaks and dips as you pass through the bass range. The best you can expect is to reduce excursion just above the flare frequency and then again at about twice that frequency, maybe even a third excursion dip above that. But between these dips, excursion rises and it is at those points that you'll want to focus your design efforts. Those excursion peaks will be what sets your limits on the low end.


Re: Horns, transmission lines and reflex cabinets [message #21247 is a reply to message #21246] Thu, 18 August 2005 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChrisK is currently offline  ChrisK
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Thank you for that clarification Wayne.
It would seem that "real world" dynamic conditions of the air mass in the horn, compression chamber and room itself as one "trundles" through the low frequencies is going to be "ragged" but in "theory" if a BLH horn is done right the loading of the driver will be a smooth curve through the low end on up eventually fading to no acoustic loading (by the horn itself). I'd guess that a given compression chamber has a great effect on creating peaks and dips in the mids and highs due to standing waves and cancellation in the chamber. Tough to damp those out especially if the chamber is small but I know "not a thing" about this stuff! With horns and full rangers there really is quite an "interplay" of electrical and acoustical loads and physical mass going on that defy description in a perfect sense. I guess that is the magic of BLH and tubes synergy (ultra synergy if you lucky)!

Re: Horns, transmission lines and reflex cabinets [message #21248 is a reply to message #21244] Fri, 19 August 2005 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Retsel is currently offline  Retsel
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Answer me this one question. When you place Lowther DX4s in tranmission line cabinets, do you need to pad down the upper frequencies or does the cabinet bring up the bass sufficiently to match the upper frequencies so that no equalization is required?

Retsel

Re: Horns, transmission lines and reflex cabinets [message #21249 is a reply to message #21248] Fri, 19 August 2005 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I've seen implementations done both ways. If you'd like to do some comparisons of specific implementations, I think it would be very interesting for everyone here. For the sake of discussion, comparisons could be made with mathematical or physical models, using predicted response or measured. Or I suppose you could use existing loudspeaker cabinets and make meaurements of them on specific amps. It would be a interesting exercise.


Re: Horns, transmission lines and reflex cabinets [message #21250 is a reply to message #21248] Sat, 20 August 2005 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
When you place Lowther DX4s in tranmission line cabinets, do you need to pad down the upper frequencies or does the cabinet bring up the bass sufficiently to match the upper frequencies so that no equalization is required?

In all the designs I have built and measured, you need to pad down the upper frequencies with a correction circuit. The cabinet can be designed to produce bass equal in efficiency to the driver radiating into 2 pi space. However, by placing the enclosure out in a room the baffle step will exist which requires correction.

Martin

Mouth Area and Cut-Off Frequency [message #21251 is a reply to message #21240] Sat, 20 August 2005 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
For your mouth area, and assuming only floor reinforcement, I get a lower cut-off frequency of 172.5 Hz. The only way I can get your 86Hz is if I assume the speaker is flush against a side wall also. My guess is that your Hedlund horn is really acting like a TL below 200 Hz and transitions to a horn above this frequency.

I would also speculate that you are probably getting weak bass and could use a BSC circuit to help tame the rising mid and high frequency response of the DX4 driver, this is probably why you are using a sub woofer to help the low end. With a good BSC circuit design, the sub woofer may not always be needed unless you really want to play bass heavy music.

Martin

Re: Mouth Area and Cut-Off Frequency [message #21252 is a reply to message #21251] Mon, 22 August 2005 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Retsel is currently offline  Retsel
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
You are right. I mistakenly used an equation that already assumed 1/4 pi space and I was doubling the horn opening thinking that it was not.

However, I do not need to pad down upper frequencies in the Hedlund Horn to get balanced reponse. The Hedlund Horn is balanced from 80 - 100 hz up to 10 khz. Perhaps there is a combination of horn and tranmission line bass which gives the balance that the Hedlund Horn enjoys, or perhaps it is the room reinforcement. This is not just to my ears but to any who have heard my system.

The subwoofer I was using does not provide much boost for the mid bass as I was crossing it over at 38 hz with a third order crossover. The subwoofer is very desirable, though, for most all music.

Retsel


Re: Mouth Area and Cut-Off Frequency [message #21261 is a reply to message #21252] Thu, 25 August 2005 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
You should try a well designed correction circuit, you might be very surprised. It would only cost a few dollars and might make a world of difference in your system's performance. Why not give it a try? You can always take it out if you are not satisfied with the results, no permanent damage done.

Re: Mouth Area and Cut-Off Frequency [message #21263 is a reply to message #21261] Fri, 26 August 2005 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Retsel is currently offline  Retsel
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Thanks for the suggestion and some day I may try one, and if I do I would just try to borrow one to see if I would like it.

I am skeptical. I am skeptical because I am much more sensitive to transparency then most audiophiles. I work to remove as much from the signal path as possible. For example, years ago when people were raving about the Genesis digital lens, I tried one in my system and immediately removed it because it reduced the transparency of the sound.

In recent years I have been soldering or terminating my speaker wires and interconnects directly to my components to avoid the RCA connectors or speaker binding posts which rob the sound of its transparency. I wired my SACD player to remove all resistors from the signal path. I go directly from the digital chip through a set of mu metal transformers to the output. Thus, I am pretty aware of what I would like and what I would not like. I probably would not tolerate such a device in the signal path.

The upshot from taking these actions is that the sound from my system is amazing.

Retsel

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