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Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? [message #21105 is a reply to message #21086]

Thu, 28 July 2005 12:47

Ed Schilling
Messages: 47
Registered: May 2009

Baron

Bob,
With My X150 playing Enter Sandman and my speakers in corners I can show you 105 dB peaks all day long. This is 8 feet from the speakers not at "1 meter". I have demonstrated this to many people. With My F1 the peaks are limited to 100dB or so. And with my Audio Note 300B about 98 or so. The sound is not compressed and you can understand the lyrics easily....including the kid whispering. I have never had a single driver TL that was able to do that. I decided to see just what the 108 could do and put on the Stereophile Test CD 2. I played the drum solo. The meter recorded 115 dB peaks 8 feet from the speaker. Not a hint of distortion. Drums in the room. The right driver went south about 10 seconds from the end. The look on my guest's face was "priceless" The "Girl" kept saying...."but they are so tiny, how can they do that? Now I am NOT trying to start an argument here but I think that (even rear) horn loading increases efficiency and reduces excursion....well I think that's what Paul Klipsch used to claim. In my case the corners are used to "make the rest of the mouth of the horn". Modeling the enclosure will not give an accurate picture. But even so I'll tell you the flare is "roughly" exponential and the path is ~ 6 feet long. I have built TL's for the 108 and I can assure you the excursion is NOTICEABLY more than the same driver in my "favorite" speaker. You can see it easily when both are driven to the same SPL with the same warble tones. The TL's ( I built for comparison) can't come close in clean output if both use the same driver. I will not argue that a case can not be made for the statement..."BTW most highly convoluted back horns which act more like multiple TL's than true horns, they will start to run out of excursion around 80Hz.", this may be able to be "proven on paper"...I used to assume it was true, but my observations and experiments showed this not to be the case, at least in my example of a back horn. Now, when they (my speakers) are not in corners they certainly have a higher cutoff....but the efficiency gain from a couple hundred Hz on down seems to still be there as the excursion is still noticeably less than the TL for a give SPL and freq. The TL's will go a little lower in this situation, but again, at the cost of MUCH lower maximum SPL's. They don't go lower if the Horns are in corners and are now much worse off in terms of maximum SPL. I gave up on TL single driver speakers a long time ago (years)for these and many more reasons. That said I love TL's! Just built a new one but it ain't a single driver! It uses a 6.5 in co axial with a (gasp!) crossover. It needs power and will do pretty decent SPL if it has it. Now, as we all know speaker design is an art and science and full of compromises....but the premise a single driver can't do "Metal, Rock or high SPL" is simply not true. I know of at least one that can and it uses a 4 inch driver. I promise that no one that has been in my 17 X 18 "Pink Room" will tell you single drivers can't play Metal, Rock or any music that requires high SPL without "compression" or "distortion". Assuming high SPL is in the 100-105 dB range. And anyone is welcome to come by most any time and hear for themselves.
Ed
My opinions, OK guys...don't beat me up too bad!

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[Message index]

		Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Bob Brines on Tue, 26 July 2005 07:25
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Martin on Tue, 26 July 2005 10:33
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 26 July 2005 14:25
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Bob Brines on Tue, 26 July 2005 15:29
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Manualblock on Tue, 26 July 2005 18:58
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 26 July 2005 22:55
		Cone resonances. By: Mike.e on Sun, 31 July 2005 23:20
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Tue, 26 July 2005 23:53
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Tue, 26 July 2005 12:14
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Martin on Tue, 26 July 2005 12:44
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Tue, 26 July 2005 23:46
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Ozzy on Tue, 26 July 2005 17:03
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Tue, 26 July 2005 23:39
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: zobsky on Wed, 27 July 2005 21:36
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Bob Brines on Thu, 28 July 2005 05:42
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: zobsky on Thu, 28 July 2005 12:18
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Thu, 28 July 2005 08:14
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: roncla on Sat, 30 July 2005 11:02
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Sun, 31 July 2005 07:30
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: roncla on Tue, 26 July 2005 16:01
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: roncla on Tue, 26 July 2005 16:08
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Ed Schilling on Thu, 28 July 2005 12:47
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 28 July 2005 13:32
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Ed Schilling on Thu, 28 July 2005 15:21
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Thu, 28 July 2005 22:58
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: FredT on Fri, 29 July 2005 05:43
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Kim Schultz on Fri, 29 July 2005 00:40
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: JLM on Fri, 29 July 2005 03:38
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Martin on Sun, 31 July 2005 14:56
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Ed Schilling on Mon, 01 August 2005 19:58
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Martin on Tue, 02 August 2005 18:22
		Thank you Martin.....page 1 By: Ed Schilling on Tue, 02 August 2005 18:51
		.page 2 By: Ed Schilling on Tue, 02 August 2005 20:10
		my tone.... By: Ed Schilling on Wed, 03 August 2005 07:43
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: roncla on Sun, 07 August 2005 07:34
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Regal on Thu, 28 July 2005 17:46
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: JLM on Fri, 29 July 2005 04:42
		You obviously haven't heard a pair of Carolina Audio speakers. By: GTF on Sat, 30 July 2005 07:22
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: bacobits on Sat, 30 July 2005 07:59
		hornets nest By: hurdy_gurdyman on Tue, 02 August 2005 09:49
		Re: hornets nest By: Manualblock on Tue, 02 August 2005 12:15
		Re: hornets nest By: hurdy_gurdyman on Tue, 02 August 2005 14:29
		Re: hornets nest By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 02 August 2005 15:43
		Re: hornets nest By: Manualblock on Tue, 02 August 2005 18:06
		Re: hornets nest By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 02 August 2005 20:41
		Re: hornets nest By: hurdy_gurdyman on Tue, 02 August 2005 20:58
		Re: hornets nest By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 03 August 2005 01:29
		Re: hornets nest By: hurdy_gurdyman on Wed, 03 August 2005 07:33
		Re: hornets nest By: Manualblock on Wed, 03 August 2005 08:16
		Re: hornets nest By: hurdy_gurdyman on Wed, 03 August 2005 09:08
		SOme comments on this thread By: akhilesh on Thu, 04 August 2005 11:35
		Re: SOme comments on this thread By: Manualblock on Thu, 04 August 2005 16:20
		Re: SOme comments on this thread By: akhilesh on Fri, 05 August 2005 07:40
		Re: SOme comments on this thread By: Martin on Thu, 04 August 2005 17:58
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Retsel on Wed, 03 August 2005 13:58
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Thu, 04 August 2005 11:24
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Retsel on Thu, 04 August 2005 12:09
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Thu, 04 August 2005 15:47
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: hurdy_gurdyman on Thu, 04 August 2005 21:33
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Fri, 05 August 2005 07:39
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Retsel on Fri, 05 August 2005 09:13
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Martin on Thu, 04 August 2005 18:08
		a good question By: Ed Schilling on Fri, 05 August 2005 00:14
		Re: a good question By: roncla on Fri, 05 August 2005 05:25
		Thank You, Ron By: Ed Schilling on Fri, 05 August 2005 12:53
		Re: Thank You, Ron By: roncla on Fri, 05 August 2005 13:49
		Re: Thank You, Ron By: roncla on Fri, 05 August 2005 13:58
		Re: a good question By: Martin on Fri, 05 August 2005 05:26
		Re: a good question By: roncla on Fri, 05 August 2005 05:51
		Re: a good question By: JLM on Sat, 06 August 2005 08:04
		Re: a good question By: roncla on Sat, 06 August 2005 08:43
		Re: a good question By: akhilesh on Fri, 05 August 2005 12:36
		Re: a good question By: Ed Schilling on Fri, 05 August 2005 22:48
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: akhilesh on Fri, 05 August 2005 07:39
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Retsel on Fri, 05 August 2005 08:56
		Ok Boys, read this........ By: Ed Schilling on Sat, 06 August 2005 12:02
		Re: Ok Boys, read this........ By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 07 August 2005 03:03
		Re: Ok Boys, read this........ By: Ed Schilling on Sun, 07 August 2005 08:31
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Greg B on Sat, 06 August 2005 12:15
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Ed Schilling on Sat, 06 August 2005 12:27
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Greg B on Sat, 06 August 2005 14:44
		10-4 ! By: Ed Schilling on Sat, 06 August 2005 14:53
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 07 August 2005 03:01
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: bob pace on Sun, 07 August 2005 07:06
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 07 August 2005 07:57
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: bob pace on Sun, 07 August 2005 13:06
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 07 August 2005 13:59
		Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? By: hurdy_gurdyman on Sun, 07 August 2005 14:50
		Further thoughts on peaks and some clarifying questions By: akhilesh on Mon, 08 August 2005 01:42
		Re: Further thoughts on peaks and some clarifying questions By: bob pace on Thu, 11 August 2005 13:47
		Maximum SPL charts By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 12 September 2005 06:02

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