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| Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? [message #21098 is a reply to message #21089] |
Tue, 26 July 2005 23:46   |
akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (3rd Degree) |
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HI Martin,
THe single driver I use will produce the bass with low watts, but with large Xmax. THis leads to distortion. This limits the ability of the single driver if producing the fullest frequency spectrum, to produce high SPLs.
My solution: use the "single driver" in the 80/90 Hz plus mode. This takes care of the SPL issue and at least in my experience, makes the sound a LOT cleaner. I have never heard a properly designed BLH in a single driver (well except my Klipschorns which are not single driver). Based on reading, it should produce significantly freater efficiency than a TL or a BR, and hence more bass and cleaner sound. Maybe the math model you are developing at present will show that.
Do share with us the qualitative aspects of your models, as they develop and are validated. This will help us all gain insight into the advantages of a BLH, if any.
-akhilesh
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| Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? [message #21099 is a reply to message #21091] |
Tue, 26 July 2005 23:53 |
akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (3rd Degree) |
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Bob Brines wrote:
"It won't work for the SET crowd because the cross over has to be done either digitally, which kind of takes the shine off of vinyl, or has to be done actively at the pre-amp level which normally means some OP amps."Actually, I use the Xover in the preamp mode, and then use a SET (a 45 SET) to drive the "single driver". Sounds quite nice to me. I don't personally believe the opamps make a difference, (any more so than the myriad other phase shifts caused by passive compknents, which I donlt have, box, room reflections, etc). I have experimented with the same driver ( in the same box) in single driver mode, single driver with BSC circuit mode, "single driver" with super tweeter and BSC mode and finally, "single driver" with super tweeter, sub & active Xover mode. THe single driver with super tweeter, sub & active crossover sounds by far the cleanest and the most involving.
But this is just my opinion, and may be different for different setups.
-akhilesh
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| Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? [message #21100 is a reply to message #21088] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 21:36 |
zobsky
Messages: 39
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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>> 2. The solution I use is a lot simpler: Use a sub for the lower frequencies. THis takes care of the SPL issue. caveat, .. this works better if the "full range has a reasonably flat frequency response". many (though not all) full / wide range drivers out there have a rising frequency response which is not addressed by this method. Such animals are best tamed by employing a horn or such to counteract the imbalance, driver T/S parameters permitting. cheers
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| Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? [message #21101 is a reply to message #21100] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 05:42 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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Funny that you should mention T/S parameters at this point in the thread. If you are building a resonant cabinet, BR or TL variant, you use a relatively high Qts driver and avoid the rising FR issue. The higher the Qts, the less likely you are to encounter this problem. The Fostex FE167E and F200A and the Lowther DX2 all have Qts 0.3 or better and don't have a rising FR problem. Lower Qts drivers generally do and the lower the Qts the bigger the problem. Bob
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| Re: Why won't a single driver speaker do metal? [message #21105 is a reply to message #21086] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 12:47 |
Ed Schilling
Messages: 47
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Bob,
With My X150 playing Enter Sandman and my speakers in corners I can show you 105 dB peaks all day long. This is 8 feet from the speakers not at "1 meter". I have demonstrated this to many people. With My F1 the peaks are limited to 100dB or so. And with my Audio Note 300B about 98 or so. The sound is not compressed and you can understand the lyrics easily....including the kid whispering. I have never had a single driver TL that was able to do that. I decided to see just what the 108 could do and put on the Stereophile Test CD 2. I played the drum solo. The meter recorded 115 dB peaks 8 feet from the speaker. Not a hint of distortion. Drums in the room. The right driver went south about 10 seconds from the end. The look on my guest's face was "priceless" The "Girl" kept saying...."but they are so tiny, how can they do that? Now I am NOT trying to start an argument here but I think that (even rear) horn loading increases efficiency and reduces excursion....well I think that's what Paul Klipsch used to claim. In my case the corners are used to "make the rest of the mouth of the horn". Modeling the enclosure will not give an accurate picture. But even so I'll tell you the flare is "roughly" exponential and the path is ~ 6 feet long. I have built TL's for the 108 and I can assure you the excursion is NOTICEABLY more than the same driver in my "favorite" speaker. You can see it easily when both are driven to the same SPL with the same warble tones. The TL's ( I built for comparison) can't come close in clean output if both use the same driver. I will not argue that a case can not be made for the statement..."BTW most highly convoluted back horns which act more like multiple TL's than true horns, they will start to run out of excursion around 80Hz.", this may be able to be "proven on paper"...I used to assume it was true, but my observations and experiments showed this not to be the case, at least in my example of a back horn. Now, when they (my speakers) are not in corners they certainly have a higher cutoff....but the efficiency gain from a couple hundred Hz on down seems to still be there as the excursion is still noticeably less than the TL for a give SPL and freq. The TL's will go a little lower in this situation, but again, at the cost of MUCH lower maximum SPL's. They don't go lower if the Horns are in corners and are now much worse off in terms of maximum SPL. I gave up on TL single driver speakers a long time ago (years)for these and many more reasons. That said I love TL's! Just built a new one but it ain't a single driver! It uses a 6.5 in co axial with a (gasp!) crossover. It needs power and will do pretty decent SPL if it has it. Now, as we all know speaker design is an art and science and full of compromises....but the premise a single driver can't do "Metal, Rock or high SPL" is simply not true. I know of at least one that can and it uses a 4 inch driver. I promise that no one that has been in my 17 X 18 "Pink Room" will tell you single drivers can't play Metal, Rock or any music that requires high SPL without "compression" or "distortion". Assuming high SPL is in the 100-105 dB range. And anyone is welcome to come by most any time and hear for themselves.
Ed
My opinions, OK guys...don't beat me up too bad!
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