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Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21059]

Tue, 12 July 2005 20:16

GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I've only had limited exposure to single driver speakers. The ones I've heard have that certain magic about them that draws you into the music, but only with "simple" music. Give it anything that rocks, and they become confused and congested. Very similar to Colin's comparison of SET to the reluctant virgin.

Granted, I haven't them all. Are there any single driver speakers out there that can rock like a multi-way? Is the confusion I'm hearing due to intermodular distortion?

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21060 is a reply to message #21059]

Tue, 12 July 2005 20:47

roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009

Master

I really dont know what you mean by rock? If its SPL well sure. I have had my horns to 106 db and the sound was very stable and not congested , very detailed. And it only took around 8 watts. But! at that level for any amount of time and it can and will cause hearing loss. Besides i frequented many concerts in my wild youth and after one Dead concert i could not hear properly for about one week. Too much hearing has already been lost, i dont wish for more.
ron

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21061 is a reply to message #21060]

Wed, 13 July 2005 07:09

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Who knows how much damage sitting twenty feet from those huge stage PA speakers at inummerable rock concerts did to our hearing. I can no longer be exposed to very loud music as it causes physical pain. I believe it is a direct result of playing in Rock bands for thirty years as well as concerts. Wish I would have wore those hearing protectors when I had the chance.
As far as Rock levels with SD; I tried it and just noticed the sound took on a one note strained quality that wasn't pleasent. These were the Decwares, the better ones. I have heard Lowthers and would not want to push them with heavy rock duties.

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21062 is a reply to message #21060]

Wed, 13 July 2005 08:05

GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

SPL would be part of it, but not the only thing. I've heard single driver speakers fill a large room and sound great, but only with simple acoustic music. Toss in a full rock band in there with heavy bass line, electric guitar feedback and loud kick drum and the whole thing sounds like mud.

That's another thing. Electric guitar feedback do not sound right in the single driver speakers I've listen to.

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21064 is a reply to message #21061]

Wed, 13 July 2005 19:22

roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009

Master

If you are really looking for that kind of slam then 15" woofers in a sealed cab ( just my perference) with a FR in a sealed cab run FR and let the sealed cab take care of the LF rolloff with maybe a helper HF horn or ribbon if its needed. Yea its a 2-3way, but the FR will be doing most of the duties in the important mids. I hate crossovers in the 300 hz to 7-8 Khz, even active i can still hear it.
ron

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21065 is a reply to message #21059]

Wed, 13 July 2005 21:06

hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I guess it depends on what you call "rocks" and "single driver." I rocked a lot with my Electro-Voice LS-12's in open baffles. These are very efficient 12" fullrange drivers that played quite loud and with decent punch and clarity. However, they did need a sub below 80Hz and a horn tweeter of some kind above 10kHz, so "single driver" isn't quite right. I used a 20 watt tube amp and never felt the need for more complex speakers or a bigger amp. The big baffles took up a lot of space, though, so I went to a smaller two way design (EV Sx100 Pro speakers with CV sub.) It also "rocks", but not a single driver by any definition. The LS-12 OB's had a bigger and cooler soundstage, which I miss. The Pro EV's have a cleaner sound at high volumes, but not by a lot.

The compromises one makes to keep one's spouse happier.

Dave

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21066 is a reply to message #21059]

Thu, 14 July 2005 06:09

akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

I've never heard a pure (or even passively eqed) single driver setup that could match a multi driver setup when many instruments & voices were involved.
Of course, a single driver setup is very involving with simple arrangements.
I personally prefer the wide band setup, where one driver does a lot of the work, but gets help in the bass and the highs.
-akhilesh

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21067 is a reply to message #21064]

Thu, 14 July 2005 07:37

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Oh I agree 100%. What I was trying to say is the SD's when pushed hard seem to my ears to become congested and shrill, actually just strained sounding is more accurate. I don't listen loud but the question asked how they sound when pushed hard so I offered my experience. My set-up is a Pair of Pi 4's in one roon and Altec Valencias in the other.
Maybe you can help here; can you describe exactly what you hear in terms of the xover being audible? I would like to see if we agree on the sound of the xover. Thanks.

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Re: Can single driver speaker rock? [message #21068 is a reply to message #21067]

Thu, 14 July 2005 15:17

roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009

Master

Well first off i like BLHs mainly due to the dynamics, a seperate woofer taking over the LF requirements is good and a simple build in a sealed cab, but i still enjoy the horn dynamics and pure slam. True the horn roll off is around 50 hz but rock seldom gets below that and i am not a fan of organ music. Those huge bass bins at a concert really dont get below 50 hz anyway.
As to XO and sound, anything that spreads the sound from two locations in the human voice range (Barry White in the lows) just sounds very apparent to me in the XO range. Even active gives some phase change, so i just like a single driver to cover the 300-7,8 Khz range, even though my BLHs roll off at 340 (designed) hz i have found that the sloped final expansion gives a more coherent blend of the horn/baffle/driver handoff. I had to design the horn roll off higher due to the more narrow (slim) look of today which means a narrow baffle which means a higher XO.
Do my horns have slam, well sure they do and huge dynamics as well as soundstage. Under normal listening conditions i seldom go beyond 1 watt at 2 watts its LOUD and around 4 watts its painful and there is no apparent distortion due to the loading of the driver.
ron

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