Home » Audio » Speaker » Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland
Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20395 is a reply to message #20394] Tue, 14 September 2004 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roncla is currently offline  roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009
Master
The pipe is loaded throught its length.The driver may be in the middle.Simple physics.
ron

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20396 is a reply to message #20395] Tue, 14 September 2004 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don is currently offline  Don
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
My point is the throat isn't the pointed tip since the driver is in the middle of the pipe. It doesn't act the same as if the driver were at the tip. Moving away from the tip makes a low pass function, does it not?
Don

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20397 is a reply to message #20396] Wed, 15 September 2004 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roncla is currently offline  roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009
Master
Moving the driver down will help null a ripple at some point in the FR curve, but the pipe still acts like a pipe.If you study Martin Kings page and Bobs page you can see that the upper closed area acts like a throat.The smaller the throat the longer the pipe.
I had many misconceptions about TLs and horns and such when i first started building single driver TLs , TQWTs and horns.But after building about 10 of varing designs and actually measuring the results i came to the realization that you cant beat the physics of quarter wave designs.I was designing (using a very advanced waveform/pressure program) a 300 hz front horn for my currentFL/BL horn design. Well the results were that it was a great deal shorter than i had believed it would be. Its then when i realized (with some study suggested by GM)that i wasent violating the quarter wave principal due to the increased throat which makes a shorter horn.
ron

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20398 is a reply to message #20397] Wed, 15 September 2004 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roncla is currently offline  roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009
Master
As an added note!
I ran some sims earlier on using my waveform program which is not as advanced as Martins program and one whole heck of a lot more difficult to set up and run.
Heres something interesting.Given the same Vb (volume of the pipe) the same driver in a set of 3 different designs this is what i saw.
A positive taper (TQWT aka Voight pipe )will have to be longer and the harmonics will be closer together. A straight MLTL will be shorter and the harmonics will be further away from each other.A negative taper will be even shorter still with the harmonics being even further apart than the MLTL.These were all based on the same Fc or low tuning frequency of the cabs.Of them all , if i was into MLTLs at the present,i would go for the straight MLTL due to the easy construction and good median results.Stuffing will be necessary due to damping of the higher harmonics and BSC will be needed unless its placed very close to a wall or has a very large baffle.
ron

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20399 is a reply to message #20398] Wed, 15 September 2004 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don is currently offline  Don
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
That is very interesting, very interesting indeed. Could you post your response graphs please? What program did you use for calculating waveform/pressure? I'd like to see its results too, if you would be so kind. Thanks for posting this most interesting information.
Regards,
Don

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20401 is a reply to message #20399] Wed, 15 September 2004 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roncla is currently offline  roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009
Master
Martin Kins program is a great deal more complete and easier to work with.Mine is a "borrowed" modified program based on hydrodynamics of pressure vessels and is very labor intensive.
I would suggest you give MKs program a try as it spits out graphs and info that i have to do numerous calculations.However on mine i cas see the wave fronts changing as they travel so its more applicable to horns and such.
ron

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20402 is a reply to message #20393] Wed, 15 September 2004 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
1) The acoustic throat of a side loaded pipe isn't the end, but where the driver is.

2) Even terminated to a point, it's never zero since the molecules 'stack up', creating an acoustic boundary plate of 'x' dimensions, just as BB found out through experimentation.

3) BB simmed a design that got good reviews and concluded that it sucked from a technical POV due to the pointed termination, concluding he would never use one. His loss IMO since it can be used to good advantage in some apps since it loads the pipe/driver much more than a larger closed end.

4) Yes, you get excessive ripple, it's the reason for making the pointed termination, but this can be tamed as desired by proper driver/stuffing placement.

Consider a woofer with a high Le. You sim a T/S max flat ML-TL and the LF gain follows the sliding slope below ~100Hz, so it's not so half space flat. With a pointed termination positive tapered pipe you get much more gain down low even after rolling some of it off through driver/stuffing placement, with the side benefit of a much better impulse response.

GM



Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20403 is a reply to message #20402] Wed, 15 September 2004 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roncla is currently offline  roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009
Master
Must be my program as i see an increasing pressure at the top as the cone moves inward.Then i see an expanding pressure front from the pointed end which arrives at the port later in time than the driver point.Harmonic?
ron

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20404 is a reply to message #20397] Wed, 15 September 2004 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
>Moving the driver down will help null a ripple at some point in the FR curve, but the pipe still acts like a pipe.If you study Martin Kings page and Bobs page you can see that the upper closed area acts like a throat.
====

Only at Fp. Slide the driver down the horn and hear your gain above it disappear.

GM

Re: Newest acquisition 2 - 8" full range from Roland [message #20407 is a reply to message #20401] Wed, 15 September 2004 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Don is currently offline  Don
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I've seen MJK's spreadsheet.
Thanks again,
Don

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