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Front horns [message #20296] Sun, 22 August 2004 18:02 Go to next message
JeffM is currently offline  JeffM
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I understand that back horns use the horn to boost deep bass. Basically the driver is used wide range and the bass is boosted where it gets weak. What I don't understand is how to use a single driver speaker in a front horn. Wouldn't this boost midrange only?

Re: Front horns [message #20297 is a reply to message #20296] Sun, 22 August 2004 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Depends on how big you make it. ;^) Realistically though, 70-80Hz is ~the practical limit size wise unless the room is long enough to allow a very long horn.

GM

Re: Front horns [message #20298 is a reply to message #20296] Sun, 22 August 2004 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Jeff,
I am not very familiar with horn design, but my IMPRESSION from reading the posts of authorities like Wayne Parham is:

1. Front horns & rear horns BOTH boost a frequency range (usually a low frequency range).
2. rear loaded horns can amplify lower frequencies (or is it a wider range?) for a given horn length than front loaded horns
3. This is why reasonable sized front horns do not give as much bass as rear horns.

my 2 ents...corrections from experts welcome!
-akhilesh


Re: Front horns [message #20299 is a reply to message #20298] Sun, 22 August 2004 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JeffM is currently offline  JeffM
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I think a front horn *could* be made to boost bass as much as a rear horn, certainly if they are the same size. The problem would be less midrange and treble would get through, wouldn't it?

Re: Front horns [message #20300 is a reply to message #20297] Sun, 22 August 2004 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JeffM is currently offline  JeffM
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
What do you do to extend treble in a front horn? If a horn is made large enough to boost bass, doesn't it stop working in the midrange? The idea of a back horn is to let the speaker work by itself in the front, and just boost bass from the backwave, right? If made as a front horn, all sound goes through the horn so won't that give it narrow range?

Re: Front horns [message #20301 is a reply to message #20300] Sun, 22 August 2004 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
To extend a horn's HF BW requires higher compression (smaller throat), but FR drivers diaphragms aren't designed to handle the load, so will distort at very low power. Also, a phase plug is required to keep cancellations from occurring due to different pathlengths from the larger diaphragm to the much smaller exit.

It stops working if you design it to do so, though it's true that the lower you extend a compression loaded Fc, the lower its max Hf cutoff will be and vice versa. Since there's no compression loading of either a FR driver BH or FR (excluding the dual horn), the throat size/filter chamber sets the BH's Hf corner since it's applying pressure to the rear of the diaphragm, while it's the FH's throat size/wall angle since it has no filter chamber of note.

You only load the rising response portion of a FR driver's LF/midbass BW, whether front or back loaded. Done right, there's just enough gain to make it ~flat on axis, i.e. no baffle step. In a BH, more extreme flare rates can/should be used to lower Fc and limit gain so it doesn't overpower the mids/HF output. In a FH, the gain must be very low to keep throat pressure low so that it doesn't roll off the driver's HF response as well as not overpower the mids/HF, ergo the horn must be much larger for a given LF/midbass BW, plus you can't fold it up like a BH without rolling off the HF somewhat.

Then there's the dual horn where you load the rear more, then mildly front load the mids to tonally balance it out. With these, you either need a rising HF response such as the Fostex FE206E has, or add a horn loaded tweeter. Either way, a fairly narrow 'sweet spot'.

With no size constraints a FR driver can be front loaded all the way to Fs without losing any HF BW. Two 40Hz ones would ~fill my room though, and all things considered not worth the effort from a SQ POV unless used either in a aircraft hanger sized room or outdoors, though not where really high SPL is required due to their limited eff./power handling.

GM



Re: Front horns [message #20302 is a reply to message #20301] Mon, 23 August 2004 00:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JeffM is currently offline  JeffM
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I think I get it. You don't make a compression horn with a full range driver, for a front horn you just add a flare with no compression. This makes it act differently. The idea is to get a mild gain, more of a directional edge than anything else. The response boost is light and complements the driver sort of like a back horn. Is that about right?

Re: Front horns [message #20303 is a reply to message #20302] Mon, 23 August 2004 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roncla is currently offline  roncla
Messages: 125
Registered: May 2009
Master
There is loading on a FL horn ,but its not to the degree as a DL horn. Using a FR driver there will not be the same % of gain between the FL and the BL horn (dual horn).
I am presently working on a dual (FL/BL) horn using the 206e driver. At first i was aiming for a 200 hz XO but after running numerous sims i can see that a 250 hz and greater XO will be more effective.Its a real balancing act as the filter chamber gets larger in a BL horn as well as the throat getting larger for a lower XO which means less loading which means less power before cone motion gets out of hand.I may even end up XO at around 300 hz which has the advantage of a smaller FL horn and better loading overall.
I believe that two seperate drivers may be more effective (one a dedicated bass horn the other a FL 200 hz and greater).But the challenge of a single driver dual horn is hard to resist.
ron

Re: Front horns [message #20304 is a reply to message #20302] Mon, 23 August 2004 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Right, I mean there's a small amount of non-linear compression due to confining the pressure more on one side than the other, but it's negligible, and of course the larger FH for a given BW normally yields a lower distortion than a BH, but due to our falling hearing acuity with decreasing frequency and the increasing room affect on it, it's pretty much moot.

Also, this doesn't mean that some ~FR drivers can't be compression loaded, just that its BW will be more HF limited than if not. FR drivers that have a peaking mids/HF roll off FR indicate a stiff/damped enough diaphragm to compression load for use as a wide BW midbass/mid FR.

GM


Re: Front horns [message #20305 is a reply to message #20299] Mon, 23 August 2004 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
No idea, Jeff. MAybe if the SHAPE influences the frequency accentutated, it may. I have never actually looked at horn design, so I honestly don't know.
akhilesh

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