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Re: Back from Dallas and depressed ... [message #19231 is a reply to message #19230] Sat, 12 May 2007 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Thanks for your thouhts. My room is actually rather large - 16 x 25 x 8. I was thinking maybe it is the opposite problme - too big. I will say that of the speakers I've used, open baffle seem to have the most promise. Maybe that's due to the radiation pattern of that type of speaker. I should probably try a sub again, but I've never had much luck integrating them so they don't sound boomy.

Re: Back from Dallas and depressed ... [message #19232 is a reply to message #19221] Sat, 12 May 2007 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skip is currently offline  Skip
Messages: 27
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Steve,

I'm speaking here from an imprecise understanding, (FWIW), but my
sense of 'bass slam' is as dependent on the harmonics as on the
fundamental -- they both have to be present, appropriate in amplitude,
and undistorted. You may have issues with the harmonics which could be
high enough in frequency to be muddled by first reflections. Have you
tried putting centering your speakers on the long wall well away from
the end walls. Your room is big enough to not feel cramped with this
arrangement.

By the way, many moons ago you recommended Obligato caps, and led me
to try them in the parafeed positon in my S.E.X. Amp. I like the
result very much. I meant to mention this to you in Dallas, but
the opportunity didn't arise. Thanks,

Skip



Bass in small spaces. [message #19233 is a reply to message #19230] Sat, 12 May 2007 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
"I suppose most small rooms, especially rooms with low ceilings, simply don't have the volume needed to develop low frequencies."

This is one of the long standing myths about audio. If this statement were true, headphones wouldn't work, and there would be no bass in a car. When the wave length becomes large with respect to the space, the entire space pressurizes and the air vibrates as a single mass. Your ears can't tell the difference from a passing wave train and a pulsating pressurized room.

The rest of the discussion of room problems was correct. In these small rooms most of the nodes are along the walls and in particular in the corners. The loops are in the middle of the room. I was fortunate to find the bass performing reasonably at the seat I planted my visitors in.

Bob


Re: Back from Dallas and depressed ... [message #19234 is a reply to message #19232] Sat, 12 May 2007 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Skip, thanks, I'll try the other orientation. Maybe that will be better. Glad you like the Obligaotos, I've enjoyed them. Nice to find a good sounding cap that cost less than my mortgage payment.

"Slam" is not real bass [message #19235 is a reply to message #19221] Sun, 13 May 2007 05:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
"Slam" is centered around 80Hz. You say that your system is flat above 50 Hz. Good. You are hearing what is on the recording. This is why changing amps, etc makes no difference. If you want more slam, you need to put a peak in the response at 80 Hz.

Bob


Re: "Slam" is not real bass [message #19236 is a reply to message #19235] Sun, 13 May 2007 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Thanks, Bob. That's an interesting idea, but I guess I'll learn to be happy with flat.

Re: "Slam" is not real bass [message #19239 is a reply to message #19235] Mon, 14 May 2007 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Well, on closer measurement this weekend, using my Rives disc that is recorded to take into account the problems with the RS SPL Meter, I find that my open baffles get down to 32.5hz with strong results (using a 15" Parts Express IB on the bottom w/seperate amp). But what I did find that was interesting is a big hole (-10 db or so) around 80 to 100hz. This may be related to crossover and/or phase, I'll have to look into that. I suppose it may also have to do with the spacing of the two drivers (the FR and the sub) on the baffle.

Re: "Slam" is not real bass [message #19240 is a reply to message #19239] Mon, 14 May 2007 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Could it be related to the "floor bounce" that you and Bob discussed? I wonder how high the sub would need to raised off the floor to get above the XO frequency......C

Standing wave notch [message #19241 is a reply to message #19240] Mon, 14 May 2007 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I see floor bounce most often about an octave above that. This is because mini-monitors and two-way speakers on stands are typically spaced a few feet up off the ground, which results in a dip around 150Hz to 200Hz.

I suspect this one is actually from the walls. They're as rigid as the floor in a concrete basement, so the destructive interference from a standing wave will be just as strong.


Re: Standing wave notch [message #19242 is a reply to message #19241] Mon, 14 May 2007 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Thanks for the note, Wayne. In this case we're talking about open baffles, which I understand have a fairly directional radiation pattern, so I'm wondering if the walls would exert that much influence? What do you think? I've got a couple of sound absorbing panels and I can try placing them 4' from the front of the speakers against walls.

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