Horn Depth & Mouth Diffraction [message #19162] |
Sun, 11 March 2007 13:03 |
Cuppa Joe
Messages: 103 Registered: May 2009
|
Viscount |
|
|
When we discussed mouth diffraction in the past, it was under the assumption that the horn in question had an axial depth of at least 1/4 WL of the cutoff frequency. On another forum, a designer/manufacturer informed a poster that a conical horn's axial depth needs to be at least a FULL WL at cutoff in order to prevent any mouth diffraction. For a 160Hz midbass horn (for instance), that would mean an axial depth of approx. 7ft! Is he correct, or just over-cautious? How significant is this "spillage" at 1/4 WL, if such is the case? One of my 3 designs could be in the toilet....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Horn Depth & Mouth Diffraction [message #19168 is a reply to message #19166] |
Mon, 12 March 2007 20:23 |
Cuppa Joe
Messages: 103 Registered: May 2009
|
Viscount |
|
|
So that you guys don't have to go by my interpretation, here are excerpts from the original quote (with spelling corrections): "Once the wavelength is longer than the horn, diffraction comes into play. The larger frequencies will reach the mouth and then go sideways." "Even with a large mid flare you only end up controlling the top half of the range." "...if your low cutoff in the mid is 150Hz, then the length of your horn for total control would have to be 2.29 metres long minimum." My concern, of course, is significant comb filtering in an arrayable multi-box system, whether vertical or (especially) horizontal. In an arced horizontal system, the diffractive spillage would also spell noticeable multiple arrival times. Yes, I know, the arced cluster arrays of the past are acoustically taboo, however my aim is toward a single-tier array of only 3 to 5 traps. The fact that several people in the past have told me that it can't ever sound good just makes me all the more stubborn!!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Horn Depth & Mouth Diffraction [message #19171 is a reply to message #19170] |
Wed, 14 March 2007 13:09 |
DMoore
Messages: 58 Registered: May 2009 Location: Seattle
|
Baron |
|
|
The issues of comb-filtering which I have experienced with folded bass horns occurs when the frequencies (bass and midrange) involved overlap too much, that is, the bass horn is putting out too much SPL at upper bass frequencies which overlap the midrange output. This is dependent on the design of the bass horn, the chosen crossover point, and the particular upper frequency corner of the driver in it. This can be avoided by using a steeper slope on the crossover network or employing a woofer with a lower mass roll-off, etc. Usually, a folded horn will tend to knock-off the upper frequency range because of the folds cancelling out the smaller wavelengths first, but not always, especially if the folds are designed to maintain phase integrity. A reasonably straight (or one employing few folds or less-drastic folds, for instance) long bass horn will usually be more likely to create comb-filtering problems generally due to its inherent ability to pass frequencies with wavelengths that physically fit inside or across its channels and mouth. The longer the pathway, the more phase-delay will occur between the midrange horn and the bass horn, same relative frequency. The difference in phase and/or time associated with the disparate sound paths from the two (or more) horn mouths will result in comb-filtering along the way to the listening position. Those smaller wavelengths also will tend to "beam" as they fit inside of the mouth size/flare and no longer follow the flare rate seen at the mouth as they get smaller (per Olson). But let me tell you from experiencing it firsthand, you will definitely hear comb-filtering as recognisable distortion if it is there at all! It's pretty horrible sounding - right up there with a bad diaphragm! DM
|
|
|
|