Home » Audio » Speaker » Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns
Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18859] Sat, 26 August 2006 12:33 Go to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Some are pretty insistent that heavy cones should be used in basshorns. Others think that lighter cones sound "tighter". I've always considered moving mass as just one of the variables, like rear chamber volume or throat area. Heavy cones have lower resonance but reducing rear chamber volume raises resonance, so it's a balancing act.

To say light cones are better or heavy cones are better is like saying stiffer springs are better for a car. It depends on what size car they go in, and what type of ride is desired. That's my opinion. What are your thoughts?


Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18861 is a reply to message #18859] Sat, 26 August 2006 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
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It may be that the terms light and heavy are substitutions for descriptions of stiffness - when the throat ratio is too high you can see the compression buckling "star-burst" in the cone, so it makes sense that there's probably a continium of cone defomation that contributes to wavefront distortion.

Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18862 is a reply to message #18861] Sat, 26 August 2006 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Certainly we don't want cone breakup but beyond that, we're also talking about diaphragm mass, suspension stiffness and excursion. One type of driver has a relatively light cone with stiff suspension and short excurision with a lot of magnetic energy concentratd in the gap. Another type of driver has a heaver cone with looser suspension and longer excursion with the coil in the gap.


Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18863 is a reply to message #18862] Sat, 26 August 2006 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
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What I was trying to say (apparently badly) is that a preference for heavy or light cones may be not related to mass - as you indicate the suspension, back chamber, gap flux can "equalize" performance given different levels of moving mass.

What I was trying to suggest is that the impression that a driver with a particular cone, heavy or light, is "better" may be related not to the moving mass but the inherent stiffness of the cone material or geometry - does that make any sense?

Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18867 is a reply to message #18863] Sun, 27 August 2006 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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How do we know exactly what constitutes heavy or light?

Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18868 is a reply to message #18867] Sun, 27 August 2006 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Making the cone strong enough to withstand throat pressure without bending or breaking is important, to be sure.

As for tuning, high mass diaphragms have low free air resonance. An example would be something like a 12" or 15" car subwoofer tuned to 20Hz or so. Low mass diaphragms have higher free air resonance. Examples would be 12" and 15" drivers with free air resonance around 40Hz and up.

One school of thought is to use a high-mass diaphragm in a basshorn with a very small rear chamber to shift resonance up. Another school of thought is to use a lighter cone and to have a larger rear chamber or open back.

I've made horns of both types, but some people say one is "right" and the other is "wrong." Bill Fitzmaurice, for example, regularly instructs people that high-mass/low-resonance drivers are wrong for basshorns. Tom Danley preaches the exact opposite. So I thought I'd open a thread for discussion.

Personally, I think it depends what one wants from a basshorn. If purely used for subwoofer duty, the high-mass/high-excursion driver is probably a better choice. If used up through the midbass, I'd use a driver with a lighter cone. I'd also fold the horn differently for the two different types, with the subhorn having folds that attenuate higher frequencies but the midbass horn either being straight or having folds that acted as reflectors, directing higher frequencies towards the mouth.


Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18869 is a reply to message #18868] Sun, 27 August 2006 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
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Unless I simply don't understand what you're saying I have a hard time accepting the proposition that high mass necessarily implies low resonance.

Do I interpret your words as comparing similar diameter cones on a beam balance - some impregnated pulp and goop covered cones will be heavier than some thin poly cones for the same diameter? If so, can that necessarily dictate Fs? With the same surround, the same suspension, the same voice coil and former you can expect the mass to determine the Fs, but it doesn't necessarily follow, does it? The heavier cone could just as well be supported by a stiffer suspension and surround making it a higher Fs driver than the lighter cone, no?

It seems to me there has to be a far more complex relationship for there to be a preference; that many other physical parameters have to be considered in addition to mass alone including the combined +/-kX aspect.

Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18871 is a reply to message #18859] Sun, 27 August 2006 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
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Viscount
>Heavy cones have lower resonance......

Greets!

Not necessarily:

Fs = [(1/Pi)/2]*{[1000/(Mms*Cms)]^0.5}

where:

Mms is in grams and Cms is in m/N
=====
>To say light cones are better or heavy cones are better is like saying stiffer springs are better for a car. It depends on what size car they go in, and what type of ride is desired. That's my opinion.
=====
Yep, it all depends on the desired BW and acoustic power/watt you want. If I only need it to load 30-100 Hz, why force a 40 Hz Fs driver with a 400 Hz HF mass corner to do it?

GM



Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18873 is a reply to message #18869] Mon, 28 August 2006 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Yeah; that sounded a little simplistic to me too.

Re: Heavy-cones verses light-cones in basshorns [message #18874 is a reply to message #18871] Mon, 28 August 2006 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Absolutely! Very true.

Higher mass results in a lower resonant frequency if suspension stiffness is the same. That was sort of an implication, but maybe I should have been specific.


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