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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18611 is a reply to message #18610]

Mon, 27 February 2006 06:32

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I put on mu old recording's of Train Sounds. And Sounds Of Nature Part2; "Thunderstorms."

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18613 is a reply to message #18606]

Mon, 27 February 2006 15:17

hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

The lowest note on the common four string bass is E at 41.3 Hz. Five string bass goes lower, probably around 30 Hz (the note is B, but I don't remember the frequency.) Many electric keyboards can get bass at or below 30 Hz. I suspect that few recordings use it, though, as most electronic music is intended for portable boom-box use anyway, where 30 Hz would sound very strange on those 6 inch speakers. There are some orchestra instuments that can go down to 30 Hz. I believe contra-bassoon goes to 28 Hz. Pianos go down into the 20's as well. Some big drums are tuned that low, also.

Action movies is where the subwoofer makes a big difference. Nothing like a 25 Hz rumble coming from an earthquake or dinosaur walking, or maybe a rocket taking off or bombs exploding.
Very musical! ../emoticons/biggrin.gif

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18614 is a reply to message #18606]

Mon, 27 February 2006 19:04

Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

There's more going on below 40 Hz then just fundamentals. There's hall ambience and decay. And a foundation (poor descriptor) to the music that's missed without.

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18615 is a reply to message #18614]

Mon, 27 February 2006 19:09

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I understand why you say that but if the recording device used to make the recording; be it CD or Vinyl, does not have that information on it because it is rolled off; then do we still hear it?
So the recordings that have information below the lowest fundamental; are there many of them? I know thats not the case for vinyl but maybe CD's have good information down there.
Maybe you can answer this; does the lowest note on the string bass have harmonics below that frequency?
How does that work?

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18616 is a reply to message #18613]

Mon, 27 February 2006 19:15

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

True Dave; some day I will watch a movie with dinosaurs walking in it and then I'll know. Does that only ring true for the Apatasaurus? Thats the big guy right?
I was watching an interview with a famous director speaking about Akira Kurasowa; the guy who did The Seven Samurai and Rashomon. The director said he watches Akira's movies every couple months because he wants to remmember why he went into film to begin with because all he is allowed to make now is..."Special Effectas."

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18625 is a reply to message #18615]

Tue, 28 February 2006 15:52

Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I wish I knew more about recording and knew if all the notes were there. It really never occurred to me that there were lower limits to the sensitivity of the equipment.
I also like to think I have at least a "Mr. Wizard" understanding of the science behind the .....things.... in our lives. Here, I'm clueless. But as I have aded more and cleaner 'bottom' to the presentation the reproduction of music has become, well, more musical.
I know (by calculation)that my 2226 BR cabinet F3 is 36 Hz. 10dB down is, I imagine about 30 to 32 Hz. There should still be audible bass around -20dB. Those are just the numbers.
Okay, we know that the low"A" on the piano is 27 Hz. So how come it comes through without having to strain to hear it? Could it be that our brains, as I read somewhere, take the little bit of information that is -20dB and process it with thew rest of the music against a stored database of sounds and create for us a tone that is essentially flat in terms of sensitivity? Is that junk science?
As I have added absorbers, diffusors and bass traps, more of that information has come out and my enjoyment has increased.
Kinda empirical, aristotelian, evunnn. I try not to forget that Woody Allen was thrown out of his Metaphysics course for cheating on a test. He was caught looking into the soul of the guy next to him.

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18627 is a reply to message #18625]

Tue, 28 February 2006 20:31

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Then he transfered over to the Black Studies Program because he wanted to learn how to be black.
Maybe regarding the bottom notes; a better woofer and more sensitive loading of the driver gives a cleaner response consequently sounding like it is reproducing lower notes; then again...maybe not??

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18633 is a reply to message #18627]

Thu, 02 March 2006 05:56

Thatch_Ear
Messages: 16
Registered: May 2009

Chancellor

I have a stereo pair of isobaric subs that go down to about 20 Hz. They are biamped and the difference between when they are on or off is quite noticable.
I am not sure how low my JBL D-123s go but no matter where they roll off at they are db down when they do. Say they roll off at 30 Hz (which I doubt) by the time they get that low they are producing the lows at a lower volume than the mids. If you are listening to a violin duet that is fine and dandy but if like me you occasionally get a wild hair and want to listen to some Yes at a bit higher volume the subs do make the difference between good and an emotional experience.
Even for most of the music I listen with a strong leaning toward acoustil instruments the ability to be db up and to adjust that to taste definatly brings a different level to the listening experience.
In case you are wondering about the isobaric there are 2 drivers facing the same direction, one sealed with the other ported but pushing the one in front. This gives you the low Fs of the ported sub, but adds speed so the driver in front can keep up with things like ribbons or electrostatic speakers. The drivers are not long excursion, which are best suited to HT or fart cars.

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Re: JBL 2242 [message #18634 is a reply to message #18633]

Thu, 02 March 2006 06:27

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Isobarick loading was the first pair of subs I ever used back around the early 80's. I understand the excitement of massive bass; it's visceral. But the Yes recordings were never known to have very wide frequency range. I would imagine that is not any where close to 30 hz that is being replayed. Have you checked the JBL specs for the 123; thats the 12 inch driver right? I think that rolls off pretty high up there. So now you are getting good bass using the sub-woofers.

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What does the bottom end do? [message #18636 is a reply to message #18634]

Thu, 02 March 2006 07:10

spkrman57
Messages: 522
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Well, for one it makes your upper frequencies sound better also as there is treble info in the bass, and there is bass detail info in the upper freq's also.

Also Thatch-ear, the bottom end of the D123 in standard reflex would be approx 45hz and drops like a rock after that.

There is deeper bass available, but it is about 20db less the efficiency of the D123 as a whole.

Ron

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