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eminence beta12CX [message #18430] Sun, 15 January 2006 00:54 Go to next message
DanTheMan is currently offline  DanTheMan
Messages: 84
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
has anyone had any experience with the coaxial drivers from eminence? The 12 incher looks like you could apply a resister to the tweeter and make the response very flat. Is this a fact, or is my poor understanding of crossovers shining through? If put in a great encloser, do you think that they would sound remotely like Tannoys? Does anyone here have an opinion they would like to share obout Tannoy speakers? I've heard their (i believe) heritage series--it has the canterburry, westminster etc...--and it definitely stood out from the pack of "home" loudspeakers. I really want that sound, but don't want to spend any where near that price. Any advice? Thanks a lot in advance.

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18431 is a reply to message #18430] Sun, 15 January 2006 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
D-Man; Look at Hurdy Gurdy's post in the Speaker Forum. He has an Open Baffle speaker using that driver modified that he likes a lot. Will it sound like a Tannoy??? It will sound good I don't know about replicating a Tannoy. But I agree the Tannoy is a very good speaker.
So; what is it you like so much about them? If you can express that maybe you can find what you need.

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18433 is a reply to message #18431] Sun, 15 January 2006 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hurdy_gurdyman is currently offline  hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to hear the famous Tannoy horns. I'd love to compare them with the Hawthorne Audio drivers custom built by Eminence for open baffle use.
Here's a like to Hawthorne Audio.

http://hawthorneaudio.com/

If memory serves, the Tannoy's are a bit more efficient than the Hawthorne's. Because the Tannoy's are made for a rear loaded horn and the Hawthorne's are made for open baffle, the two drivers are not interchangeable, so you wouldn't want to build a Tannoy horn for a Hawthorne driver. (wasn't there some Tannoy bass reflex speakers also?)
So far, I can't find anything to complain about with the Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris speakers. They do need some bass augmentation when used on a reasonable sized baffle, but even if you buy the matching bass driver, it's still cheaper than Tannoys, and the open baffle type enclosure is far easier and cheaper than a Tannoy horn enclosure.

Also, the horn high frequency drivers on these sound very detailed and no noticable horn "nasties", at least as far up as I can hear (admittedly not all that high anymore). The highs sound much nicer than the highs in a pair of Klipsch Heresy-1's I recently sold which had EV T-35 horns.
Crossover is at 3.5 kHz and is well made.
Mids sound very natural.

Dave


Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18434 is a reply to message #18433] Mon, 16 January 2006 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norris Wilson is currently offline  Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Say Dave,

Did you replicate the baffle of the Hawthorne Solo speaker?
Or, have you built the baffle that JohnninCR has kindly offered for use with the Silver Iris?

I would love to try the Silver Iris with Darell's bass augmeter driver when it is available. But, I have some resorvations about the the ability of a 15" woofer to reproduce the midrange area with quality and detail as a smaller diameter driver could that is dedicated to this region.

Would you please give us a description of how you feel the quality of the midrange of the Silver Iris coaxial driver is? I know this is subjective, since it it would be based on opinion and your personal taste. But your opinion could be helpful in my search for an open baffle speaker system, like the up and coming Duet.

Thanks

Norris Wilson

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18435 is a reply to message #18434] Mon, 16 January 2006 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hurdy_gurdyman is currently offline  hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Norris,

I made baffles similar to the Solo baffles.
Here's pics:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/the_hurdy_gurdyman/album?.dir=c24c&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/the_hurdy_gurdyman/my_photos

The mids sound more natural than either my EV LS-12's or LS-8's. They are similarly detailed to the Klipsch Heresy's I had but are less "etched" sounding. Less listener fatigue over time than the Heresy's. They just sound natural to me. I wish I could compare them to some popular speaker that everyone is familiar, but I have what I have.

Dave

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18436 is a reply to message #18435] Mon, 16 January 2006 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norris Wilson is currently offline  Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the description of how you feel the Silver Iris sounds in the midrange. Also, your baffles look nice from what I can tell from the pictures.

I have a few questions if I may.

Is the main baffle board covered with some type of porous material to deal with defraction, like possibly cork?

Is the main baffle board made of the same material as the wings, pine? Or, is it made from some type of plywood or MDF?

The wings seem to be in a fixed position of around 35°. Is this position fixed where you get the best bass integration? Or, do you have to adjust them for different recorded materials, some with too much or too little bass information?

I see that you took a picture of both of your speakers from what looks to be your listening position.
Did you get a better integration with the speakers toed in to cross in front of you, pointed directly at you, or pointed slightly on each side of you and crossing behind?

Does the inclusion of the wings and top shelf help in reducing the interferences from the rear wave and dipole effect? Or, are they mainly to increase the size of the baffle to increase the bass response?

Do you get good bass, possibly 40Hz to 50Hz, with the drivers as high from the floor as you have them mounted?

Your speakers look to be about three to four feet from the back wall, is this where they have the best bass response, balanced sound?

And finally, I see you have your TV set between your speakers.
Does this create any problems with imaging, or do you move them further out from the wall when playing music?

Thanks

Norris

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18437 is a reply to message #18436] Mon, 16 January 2006 22:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hurdy_gurdyman is currently offline  hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Norris,

>Is the main baffle board covered with some type of porous material to deal with defraction, like possibly cork?Is the main baffle board made of the same material as the wings, pine? Or, is it made from some type of plywood or MDF?

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18439 is a reply to message #18437] Tue, 17 January 2006 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norris Wilson is currently offline  Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Thanks Dave for answering my many questions, you have been very helpful. The 31.5Hz at -3db bass response is pretty darned good for a single 15" OB speaker, wonderful.
I hope you enjoy listening to and finishing this OB project.
I am looking forward to Darrel getting the Bass augmenter available for sale.
Thanks again
Sincerely
Norris Wilson

Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18440 is a reply to message #18439] Tue, 17 January 2006 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hurdy_gurdyman is currently offline  hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I posted another graph on my photos site. This one is measured from 8 feet back instead of 12 feet. It just goes to show that the warble tones test isn't a good way to judge a speaker. The results vary quite a bit from the first graph. The bass rolls of faster up close. The room has a lot to do with it I'd guess. In my room, I get 30Hz at the 12 foot listening position. At 8 feet, I' don't. Maybe has something to do with deep bass waves needing room to expand. Remember, OB's don't pressurize the room like a box does, so the bass waves may need to expand their full length to be heard at the proper level.

Warble tone testing drove me nuts with all the variations I'd get measuring former speakers I've owned. Move the mike a foot and get a completely different response graph.

To my ears, at the 12-foot listening position, the Silver Iris speakers have a very "fast" and clean sounding bass. The weight on the deeper tones is a bit lean and can benefit from some subwoofer augmentation, but they can be enjoyed on most music without help. It's certainly not hard to add a sub below 40 or 50 Hz if you want a little more bass foundation. Probably the bass driver offered by Hawthorne Audio would be as good a match as any reasonably affordable bass augmentation you'll find.

Dave



Re: eminence beta12CX [message #18441 is a reply to message #18440] Tue, 17 January 2006 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
Dave, I've found that in-room measurements with an SPL meter are next to useless. Everything is so critically dependent upon room interaction that a minor -- a few inches -- change in positioning of anything makes the results completely different. Above 1k Hz, even moving your head will dramatically change the SPL readings.

These are harsh words for a guy that designs by modeling and measurement. All you can do is pour yourself a couple of fingers of single-malt and listen. Your ears will tell you when it's right.

Bob


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