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Re: Favorite flavors [message #17488 is a reply to message #17487] Tue, 25 January 2005 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Earl Geddes is currently offline  Earl Geddes
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
My speakers like any monopole speakers, have a rising free field power response at LF. Hence they will not be any more boomy than any other speaker in a lively room. My point is that when placed in an optimum room they will have a flat(er) power response - just as any other monopole speaker would have. At low frequencies this is just the way virtually ALL speakers work - except dipoles, they are different, for better or worse.

Re: Favorite flavors [message #17489 is a reply to message #17487] Tue, 25 January 2005 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Earl Geddes is currently offline  Earl Geddes
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
Forgot to mention

The crossovers are third order but not a typical alignment since they both EQ and filter at the same time. The crossover point is selected where the LF driver and the HF driver have the same polar pattern - 90° at about 900 Hz.



Re: To Earl and Wayne [message #17491 is a reply to message #17478] Tue, 25 January 2005 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pickle is currently offline  pickle
Messages: 24
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I happen to discuss this with Wayne in his room and on his site as well, as I noticed it also, and also found it both somewhat rare and having appeal. My Maggies had an appealing nature this way, too, sounding natural and good in other rooms. Live music does this too, of course.

Re: To Earl and Wayne [message #17494 is a reply to message #17475] Tue, 25 January 2005 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rnhood is currently offline  rnhood
Messages: 11
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I too value the reverberant field. It is always exciting and brings on great anticipation approaching the listening area when a speaker system with a strong reverberant soundfield is filling the air.

Now tell me, how did those Pi-7's image from the sweet spot? Anyway close to the Maggie's by chance? I am not as familiar with these high efficiency horn type speakers but, I am interested in the Pi-7 because I have a near perfect room for these. And, they are affordably priced.



Re: Favorite flavors [message #17495 is a reply to message #17488] Wed, 26 January 2005 04:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rainer is currently offline  Rainer
Messages: 4
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Thank you

Re: Favorite flavors [message #17496 is a reply to message #17461] Wed, 26 January 2005 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline  Adam
Messages: 419
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
What? Who is speculating here?

How does one distinguish directionality from room modes?

If the room is small, room modes will dominate. There is no way to get around that I can see. The only way to get a clean measurement is in a very large room or open area with a corner. That is a textbook 1/8th space.

Tell how you measured this or if it is just speculation on your part.

Adam

Re: Favorite flavors [message #17497 is a reply to message #17474] Wed, 26 January 2005 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Earl Geddes is currently offline  Earl Geddes
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
Correct Wayne - you don't understand where I am coming from. Your comments clearly suggest that you did not follow my discussion as you keep saying I said things that I did not. And you continue to do so.

Re: Favorite flavors [message #17498 is a reply to message #17496] Wed, 26 January 2005 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Earl Geddes is currently offline  Earl Geddes
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
I am not speculating.

Directionality, to me, implies that sound waves are free to propagate in any direction and a sources directionality defines the level of sound waves that propagate in an arbitrary but particular direction.

Room modes are quite different in that they can only propagate in a single specific direction. A sound wave that is exciting a mode does not travel freely but is fixed in the direction defined by the mode. To talk about the directionality of sound waves in the modal situation is a misnomer IMO. At a mode ALL sources, monpoles, dipoles, horns, whatever, have the exactly the same directionality. Does it make any sense to talk about directionality of the source in this case?

"If the room is small, room modes will dominate." True in ALL rooms at some frequency. The room modes dominate up at and somewhat past the Schroeder Frequency (if you don't know that term look it up). Above that ALL rooms act the same and modes are no longer relavent. This is fundamental room acoustics (See Kutruff "Room Acoustics" or my own texts).

I can get a clean measurement in any room, above a frequency defined by the first reflection. The smaller the room the higher the frequency. In fact, some recent studies have shown that it is possible to go much lower in frequency than this traditional limit implies, but that is another topic. But at no time can one use a corner for a "clean" measurement. 1/2 space is sometimes used but this too has its problems. The only really clean measurement is a gated free field one, which can be done, within limits, in any room.

Are you trying to learn something here or is this just a challenge? I will attempt to educate, but I will not accept a challenge.


Re: Favorite flavors [message #17499 is a reply to message #17498] Wed, 26 January 2005 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline  Adam
Messages: 419
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Just as I thought, you have no measurements. You define a challenge then back away. Room modes screw the pooch. Put a reflector in front of any horn and see what happens, ey?

Re: Favorite flavors [message #17500 is a reply to message #17497] Wed, 26 January 2005 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18790
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
What I meant is that I don't see why you persist in saying that eighth-space radiation isn't tantamount to directivity, especially when it is defined as having a directivity factor of 8 and a directivity index of 9.

I think this discussion went down an unproductive path from early on. No one questoned your assessment of room modes and their significance. I generally agree with your reasoning where that is concerned.

What I disagree with you about is the room corner, itself. You make assumptions about the room that I don't make. Where I see our difference is that you attach an arbitrary generalized room to the launch corner when you discuss it, and I consider the launch corner separetely. I see π/2 radiation and standing waves from radiator placement and room boundaries, but you only see an averaged and therefore generalized field of modal vibrations.

The room is a variable, so I don't think it is appropriate to lump it in, because that causes you to make generalized statements that aren't necessarily true. The size and shape of the room and the stiffness and absorbency of its boundaries determine how it acts. A very large room acts a lot differently than a small one does, as does one with angled ceilings, peculiar shapes or open areas. So I prefer to see the room modes as a separate matter from the radiating angle of the launch corner.

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