Home » Audio » Speaker » Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels?
Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17124] Mon, 25 October 2004 06:44 Go to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
HI Everyone, I was just wondering if more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at levels around 90-95 DB.
For example, would a lowther, fostex type cone driver (rated at say 100 db for the sake of example) offer less distortion, since it is being fed less than a watt?
ANother example, would a horn-based compression driver rated at 95 db, without the horn, offer less distortion?

thanx
-akhilesh

Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17125 is a reply to message #17124] Mon, 25 October 2004 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Can't speak for the distortion from the drivers, but using more sensitive speakers do allow you to operate the amp at a lower level, thereby, reducing distortion from there.

Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17126 is a reply to message #17124] Mon, 25 October 2004 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seeker is currently offline  Seeker
Messages: 48
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Bi-amping your speakers will reduce distortion no matter the sensitivity, or the type of your speakers. I hate distortion of any kind, especially amp distortion in the lower frequencies. Marchand has a good range of active x-overs and I've used some of his products before; Audio Control's Richter Scale x-over / bass equalizer is what I prefer to use.

Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17127 is a reply to message #17124] Mon, 25 October 2004 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Most harmonic distortion from speakers comes from asymmetry in the motor. Generally speaking, the less movement that's required, the lower the distortion. So since high efficiency speakers in horns don't have to move as far for the same SPL, they generally offer lower harmonic distortion.

There are other tradeoffs and things to consider, as is true of all things. For one, high-efficiency designs are generally reduced in bandwidth and sometimes response isn't as flat. If you optimize for efficiency, you generally de-optimize other parameters.

Everything is a series of compromises. You want top speed? You might trade fuel economy. You want max output? You might lose some response at the extremes. The best solutions I've found are those that give me many of the advantages of horns while not sacrificing too much in response. My solutions all seem to be around 100dB/W/M in quarterspace or eighthspace, which is pretty high efficiency but not fully optimized in that direction.

Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17132 is a reply to message #17127] Wed, 27 October 2004 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Thanks Wayne. Makes a lot of sense! Maybe the high eff. drivers & speakers sound cleaner simply becuase of lower distortion? YOu know, the reason why people think a klipschorn or Pi speakers sound "live" is the freedom from distortion. What do you think?
-akhilesh


Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17133 is a reply to message #17132] Wed, 27 October 2004 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Yes, I agree. The two main benefits of high efficiency speakers, in my opinion, are low distortion and wide dynamic range. Efficiency in and of itself is attractive, but it is their low distortion and wide dynamic range that I consider the most important benefits.

Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17137 is a reply to message #17124] Thu, 28 October 2004 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skip Pack is currently offline  Skip Pack
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hollister, California
Baron
There's a very interesting article in this Month's Sterophile
by Keith Howard on Doppler induced distortion in speakers.
This adds a wrinkle on the assymetry-based harmonic distortion
that Wayne is talking about. I have no means, insufficient
knowledge, nor the time to seperate these effects and tie
them to real performance, but it all makes sense to me.

Re: Do more sensitive drivers offer less distortion at "normal" listening levels? [message #17139 is a reply to message #17137] Thu, 28 October 2004 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Thanks, Skip.
-akhilesh

Another perspective [message #17267 is a reply to message #17133] Thu, 23 December 2004 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Earl Geddes is currently offline  Earl Geddes
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Registered: May 2009
Master
After numerous studies of nonlinear distortion, in loudspeakers and otherwise, I have concluded that nonlinear distortion is not a primary factor in sound quality. This agrees with the work of Shawn Olive at Harman.

What, IMO, does make a difference - directivity. Most High efficiency loudspeakers are more directional because they tend to be bigger. This directionality helps to minimize room refections and diffractions which are audibly very negative factors. But high directivity in and of itself is not enough, it must also be well controlled. Both the direct response and the power response have to be equal and this must be done with a high degree of directionality to achieve good imaging and presnce. but the room itself must also be done right or the loudspeaker won't make a whole lot of difference.

No, I don't think that its the high efficiency of larger drivers and waveguieds that matter, but it is there inherent narrower directivity that is the primary factor.


Re: Another perspective [message #17269 is a reply to message #17267] Fri, 24 December 2004 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Hi Earl,

Good to see you here, and thanks for your opinions. I agree with you about directivity. I like cornerhorn speakers with all flares set for 90o horizontal dispersion because then directivity is matched throughout the audio band, and wall reflections are minimized. With narrow vertical directivity, floor bounce is reduced too. A 40x90 flare works nicely with mids and tweeters placed at ear level. The pattern angle drop from a 40o flare is one foot for every 33 inches, so if the midhorn is placed three feet from the floor, the floor bounce is about 8.25 feet out, and not particularly problematic. That's my favorite implementation.

As for distortion, I can really hear the difference between a driver with a shorting ring and another similar driver without one. It makes about 20dB reduction in second-order harmonics. But that's harmonic distortion that I'm hearing. What kinds of non-linear distortions are you talking about? Things like breakup modes or non-linearities in the motor movement?

Wayne

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