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Re: Tuning? [message #17163 is a reply to message #17161] Sat, 06 November 2004 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
adavis464 is currently offline  adavis464
Messages: 64
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
You might want to get an old speaker build articals I don't remember who the author was .He had great success but he tuned his bandpass reverse Less low end wider bandwidth.he used them for pro sound.Don't get me wrong a bandpass can be tuned to sound less (one note Sounding),but everyone wanted real low bass and did not care because they sounded good in home theater use.Now days digital eq's may make all the difference in the world.I will look for the speaker builder articals over the weekend if I find them I will let you know.Regards Tim

What's the point [message #17164 is a reply to message #17162] Sat, 06 November 2004 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
adavis464 is currently offline  adavis464
Messages: 64
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
When there are many other designs that have wider bandwidth and out perform them.Yes it can be done But? Regards Tim

THis is not the point of the original post [message #17165 is a reply to message #17153] Sat, 06 November 2004 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
but why not just get a good powered sub? Something like the Hsu?
Pretty low distortion, small size, and convenient.
-akhilesh

Increased output and small size [message #17166 is a reply to message #17164] Sat, 06 November 2004 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I don't build any bandpass systems, so this isn't really my thing; I prefer other arrangements too. But I think the advantages of the bandpass system are increased output and small size.

Resonance [message #17167 is a reply to message #17156] Sun, 07 November 2004 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
A unit with higher rate of roll off has worse transient response.
I guess because its more reactive over a smaller area.

Better>worse response

1st order dipole
2nd order Sealed/horn
4th order Ported
4th/6th order Bandpass
8th+ Bandpass


Ports use stored energy to enhance bass output. The air has mass,the method of the port stores energy til 'later'.

When designing bandpass subs,the whole idea of them is loudness,so quality suffers.Cone excursion on bandpass systems are lower than ported and sealed-but the fact is,in the time domain,once started in motion the sound doesnt stop quickly enough on a resonant system

Re: Resonance [message #17169 is a reply to message #17167] Sun, 07 November 2004 03:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Hi Mike,

Brian Davies made a comment that I thought was telling. He said that given two systems with the same driver, whatever EQ is provided to make the amplitude response equal will make the transient response equal too. So it's probably not an apples and apples thing - If a system is optimized so transient response is improved, it pays for it with less extension. If bass extension is made deeper, whether by acoustic device or electrical EQ, then the transient response will suffer by the same amount.

Wayne

Apple+apple [message #17170 is a reply to message #17169] Sun, 07 November 2004 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
This is interesting,ive heard of this. Some people liked to think that EQ was different in some way and wouldnt decrease SQ or make GD worse because its electrical...

This also makes sense,with the BP systems,with more EQ applied sound worse.. Personally i WOULD go sealed if i had enough Vd-but only when i had enough(ie not at the moment)

Regards
Mike.e

Re: Apple with one worm+apple with two worms [message #17171 is a reply to message #17170] Sun, 07 November 2004 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
adavis464 is currently offline  adavis464
Messages: 64
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
I used a swan 305(1994) in a 4cuft vented box 91db 1watt1meter f3 28hz.In a bandpass I used 2 in a compound setup to reduce size by half with a passive radiator (box is to small to use vents).With the system un-tuned It measured 98db 65Hz to 400Hz once tuned it was 85db from 20Hz to 100Hz.The effiency dropped and the bandwidth narrowed but that was what the original callculations pedicted but the effiency was about 3db less than predicted.(All calculation were done using KEF's AES paper)When tuning we also stopped at 28Hz it was 88db and it only worked well to about 300Hz.They sound similer to a transmition line.Thats just my experence.Regards Tim

Congratulations! You've made the 25,000th post! [message #17173 is a reply to message #17171] Sun, 07 November 2004 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daemon is currently offline  daemon
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You've won the 25,000th post game! Please write your address (by private E-Mail if you wish) and we'll send your prize right away!

Re: Bandpass subs [message #17174 is a reply to message #17157] Sun, 07 November 2004 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bill Fitzmaurice is currently offline  Bill Fitzmaurice
Messages: 335
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
I wouldn't do a 4th order bandpass,unless horn loaded as I did with my Tuba design to get a decent bandwidth. On the other hand a dual chamber 6th order alignment where you tune to two different frequencies instead of one eliminates a single peak response and thus can get a pretty good sound.

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