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Re: It's probably a midrange thing. [message #16324 is a reply to message #16318]

Fri, 09 April 2004 14:51

Bill Fitzmaurice
Messages: 335
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Well, the Klipsch definitely shows major dips in the midbass and midrange, two areas where the ear is very sensitive, and so while the overall SPL is pretty close I'm not surprised that the EV subjectively sounds louder, though not necessarily better. In fact many studies have shown that the ear finds most pleasing frequencies that it is less sensitive to: bass and treble.
As to why the Klipsch has a case of the dips, could be diffraction and Allison effects that the larger radiating planes on the EVs do a better job of controlling.

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16325 is a reply to message #16315]

Fri, 09 April 2004 14:55

Bill Fitzmaurice
Messages: 335
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Here I'd say that the Klipsch are putting out more below 100 Hz than the EV, so they don't need as much assistance. An SPL check without the subs would tell.

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16329 is a reply to message #16323]

Fri, 09 April 2004 15:13

hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I actually set the sub level with test tones and meter so it is flat down to 30Hz with either speaker. It just takes more gain over the entire subwoofer range to match the EV's.

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16331 is a reply to message #16316]

Fri, 09 April 2004 15:16

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18784
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

It's all good!

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16332 is a reply to message #16325]

Fri, 09 April 2004 15:19

hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

With the Klipsch, I do need to cut back the range around 60Hz to make flat response, but still the entire range below that needs more gain with the EV's then the Klipsch at the same volume control setting. The entire bass range below 60Hz needs to be boosted several dB for the EV's. When using the EV's, I boost the 62Hz eq on my graphic eq used with the sub. That's the only eq change from one speaker to the next.
The graphic eq is only used with the sub amp, and is set for flat response with each speaker system used.

Dave

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16333 is a reply to message #16317]

Fri, 09 April 2004 15:23

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18784
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Yeah, the differences in measuring outdoors in freespace and indoors is substantial. Eighth-space (corner loading) is 9dB higher than freespace. Makes sense that there is nearly a 10-fold increase because the corner forms a horn all by itself. Even if a speaker isn't corner loaded, you can pretty much expect 6dB just using them anywhere in a room that isn't huge or highly absorbent. Quarter-space (wall/floor placement) is 6dB over freespace, and even if you pull away from the wall, you're still in a confined area.

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Re: It's probably a midrange thing. [message #16335 is a reply to message #16324]

Fri, 09 April 2004 15:34

hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

The EV's definately sound louder when using one of each. To center the image requires turning the balance control almost all the way over toward the Heresy.
As for sound quality, I could live with either. The Heresy's have what could almost be described as a sizzling midrange/treble, even with the mid-range driver set to the lower autoformer setting in the crossover. I heard one person describe this as a "frying bacon" sound playing with the music. This is the only complaint I have with the Heresy's, which, so far, I haven't been able to tweek out. It's more noticable with some types music then other types. The EV's have a wider image and subjectively sound "smoother", but don't have quite as good of transient detail, which seem to be their only real fault. I would love to have a speaker with all the good points of these two and none of the faults. Don't ask for much, do I!

Dave :^)

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16345 is a reply to message #16305]

Sat, 10 April 2004 12:16

AstroSonic
Messages: 58
Registered: May 2009

Baron

If you are using a tube amplifier, the EV LS-12 may be an easier load to drive than the Heresy because, lacking a crossover in the midrange, it provides a more constant matching impedance thru the midrange. As a result, more power is actually delivered to the LS-12 for the same volume setting.

Regards,

Bob

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16346 is a reply to message #16345]

Sat, 10 April 2004 14:16

hurdy_gurdyman
Messages: 416
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I was thinking something like that myself, but wasn't sure if it was a reasonable explanation or not.

Dave

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Re: sensitivity question [message #16348 is a reply to message #16346]

Sun, 11 April 2004 06:54

AstroSonic
Messages: 58
Registered: May 2009

Baron

Dave,

The impedance curve between the Fs peak and the VC inductance rise in the HF presents a pretty constant load, and this is the range that contains the 'heart' of most of the music. A 2-way speaker places a broad peak in the midst of that. Its very much like running a 16 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm tap. The sound just lacks vitality. IME, full range/wide range drivers present an easy load for tube amplifiers. At only 90 db/w/m, the RS 1354 is easily driven by my 45 SET, sounding a little more lively than 2-way Tannoys with a 1.5 kHz xover and 94 db/w/m. The impedance mismatch caused by a midrange crossover peak results in poor power transfer, less apparent (actual in the range of the peak) efficiency, and a less lively presentation.

Best,

Bob

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