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Censorship [message #1464] Tue, 12 April 2005 11:20 Go to next message
Gazmo is currently offline  Gazmo
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
What is the policy of censorship here? Thursday, someone posted a question about tuba horns. Quoting:

http://audioroundtable.com/BillFitzmaurice/messages/4896.html

"I noticed some strange sounds, particularly with a five string bass. It's very difficult to distingush half step intervals, especially the low B to C. Another observation is that certain notes are noticeably louder than others. The louder I crank the volume, the worse it gets."

I pointed to the message here:

http://audioroundtable.com/SingleDriverSpeakers/messages/1089.html

I was accused of being a plant for JBL, Mackie and RCF. I was attacked as being part of a conspiracy to undermine Bill Fitzmaurice. Then my messages were deleted and my computer access blocked. If that isn't censorship, I don't know what is.

Bill Fitzmaurice has admitted to hand doctoring his response graphs, and I'd like to know why that is allowed to stand while my messages were deleted. There are many people that have measured his speakers. Owners/builders have measured them and I don't think they are adversaries of Bill Fitzmaurice, so it isn't as if the charts were made by people "out to get him". All measurements show the same kind of response. I point to what builders of tubas have measured, and let that speak for itself, but my posts are deleted. Why?

Re: Censorship [message #1465 is a reply to message #1464] Tue, 12 April 2005 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
admin
Messages: 406
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Administrator

Each of the sponsors has full editorial control over their own sponsored forums. They set the rules, set the tone, even run their own banner ads. Each is free to run their forums as they see fit.

The open forums are monitored by volunteers that have no particular association. They enforce AudioRoundTable.com rules uniformly. All are treated equally, and no preferential treatment is given to anyone. If you make a post that breaks the rules, it will be deleted. If it doesn't, it won't.


Re: Censorship [message #1466 is a reply to message #1464] Tue, 12 April 2005 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I see you were deleted and I assume it was done under the Paragraph two of the no defamatory or false statements clause. This requires that you refrain from negative statements or opinions unless you can provide "unambiguous proof" verifiable through a third party of your statements. The graph you provided does not constitute "Unambiguous proof" since it has no label of authenticity concerning the measurement program used and there is no third party testimony. Provide this information and I am sure you will be allowed to state your opinion with equanimity.

Re: Censorship [message #1467 is a reply to message #1464] Wed, 13 April 2005 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
There are rules and then there is etiquette. Criticizing a product is fine, but getting excessively personal or hyperbolic is not in very good taste. I for one hang out here becuase of the good taste.
Does this make sense?
For an example of criticiszing a product in good taste, please see the following post in the same forum:
http://audioroundtable.com/SingleDriverSpeakers/messages/1213.html
thanks
-akhilesh

Re: Censorship [message #1468 is a reply to message #1464] Wed, 13 April 2005 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Gazz; don't give up. If your point is genuine then we need to hear it. Just use a recognizable measurement program and have another party verify the results. It's only fair. If you make a claim of that signifigance then it must be verified. You would require the same treatment.

Re: Censorship [message #1469 is a reply to message #1468] Thu, 14 April 2005 06:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
While what John is suggesting is good, one doesn;t need independently verified measurements in orderto post somehing at least on the single driver forum. You can post your just own measurements too....people can believe you or not. If a couple of people get teh same measurements, that adds weight to your measurements.

THe main issue is the tone of each post, and the taste beind it, at least asfar as i am concerned. WE have all made or listened to products that sound worse than others, or betterthan others. THe nature of our hobby is such that it's easy to criticize ANY system or component, since nothing is perfect.

None of us are against opinions...you don't need a third party verfication every time you make a statement or express an opinion...it's important to keep posts in good taste though, at least on the single driverforum (and i imagine all fora here, except maybe the dungeon?)
-akhilesh

Re: Censorship [message #1470 is a reply to message #1469] Thu, 14 April 2005 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
AK; thats not my suggestion, those are the rules. Paragraph 2 second clause. As long as the guy fulfills this requirement he has a right to speak. I read the cancelled post and saw no other problem so naturelly assumed he needed to follow the rule as per ART in order to be heard. As well as laying to rest once and for all whether he is correct. If he shows some irritation at being challenged; maybe it is because he knows something and cannot understand why he is stonewalled. Or maybe he is not accurate and if so; we deserve to know that also.
It is a shame as he seems to have abandoned this thread so we might never know. I know this is not in the rules but there should be a system in place to provide a warning before a post is deleted.
Cencorship is invidious and as such should be exposed to the highest possible degree with the strictest standards applied. Deleting at will or capriciously is as bad as the original transgression. He should have had a chance to ammend his post if it offended you.

Re: Censorship [message #1472 is a reply to message #1470] Thu, 14 April 2005 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
People whose posts have been deleted are welcome to repost in a more reasonable tone.

I think many of us have a problem with posts that are rude or have uncalled for negativity. I know I do. I don't really want this to be an asylum (no pun intended). At least not the single driver forum for sure, which I do moderate.

So if I see a post that I think is rude or has uncalled for negativity, I will delete it, after stating why.

Here is the FIRST part of Forum Rules, reproduced for all our benefit:

No ad hominem attacks or contentious off-topic comments.

We want everyone's experience on AudioRoundTable.com to be a good experience. The idea is to make this a nice place to discuss audio, video and related topics and not a place where personal attacks are seen in every other post. We encourage debate, but the discussion must remain on-topic and cannot be allowed to descend into an escalating exchange of insults. Ad hominem attacks will be deleted, no matter what the reason.

Don't make your arguments too personal, instead, focus on the content of the post rather than the personality of the author. Posts containing overt or covert personal attacks will be deleted. Do not attempt to circumvent this rule by attacking everything about a person - their sound system, their car, their job, their dog, etc. - when the intent is to discredit the person written about.

We don't mind occasional off-topic content, but if you start in on a long discussion about a controversial topic not related to audio, expect to find your posts deleted. Discussions about political matters and the state of the world may be very important, but there are other places for that.
------------end rules excerpt------

The above excerpt more than justifies the deletion of posts if the moderator thinks they are too personal.
Hope this makes sense. The idea is to keep it pleasant for all. There are many other fora on the web for paople to get negative. That's just not going to happen on the single driver forum, at least as long as I am the moderator.

-akhilesh




Re: Censorship [message #1473 is a reply to message #1472] Thu, 14 April 2005 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
O'Kay.

Re: Censorship [message #1475 is a reply to message #1468] Fri, 15 April 2005 10:54 Go to previous message
Gazmo is currently offline  Gazmo
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I didn't make the measurements. The response graphs were posted by builders of tubas. Look in the forum and you'll find them. There are like 5 or 6 that look the same and that is confirmation enough for me.

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