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ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10539]

Thu, 19 February 2004 10:15

akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

HI Everyone,
My first "high end" single-ended tube amp continues to be my reference: the zen se84C, got for $500.
I have heard (and owned) several push pulls, as well as listened to one DIY 2a3 SET. I like the ZEN still. Very uncolored, analytical enough without being too etched, and enough power for my speakers ( all of them are 95 db +).

Anyone have opinions on the ZEN with other amps they may have heard, I would love to hear them. I have never heard a 300B for example.
-akhilesh

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10542 is a reply to message #10539]

Fri, 20 February 2004 05:21

Thermionic
Messages: 208
Registered: May 2009

Master

Most 300B amps are a tad slower than the little Zens and don't have the neutrality and detail, either. What they do have is a warm, rich, euphonic tonality that keeps you stuck in the listening chair like glue. (if you like that sort of sound)

I have heard quite a few amps that trumped the Zen on overall sonics, but only one or two in it's price range. Most cost more than my car! I've also heard a few DIYs that were better. Those little Zens are hard to beat for the price, though. I have a friend with a heavily modded Zen that is just simply awesome.

Thermionic

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10543 is a reply to message #10542]

Fri, 20 February 2004 07:13

akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

HI Thermionic,
Which were these amps that trumped the Zen? I would love to hear more about them, and maybe hear them.
-akhilesh

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10550 is a reply to message #10543]

Sat, 28 February 2004 12:25

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Hi AK; If I may chime in, those SE 84's are nice amps they work well with the Pi stuff, I am wondering why you would want to seek another amp especially based upon other peoples evaluations. I too have been guilty of offering opinions that essentialy are meaningless. The money required to provide more life into a pair of pi's from an improvement in the amplifier would be astronomical compared to the improvement you would see from a better cartridge or tonearm. What music sounds best on your combination of electronics? Someone on another forumn went on at length about some amp and at the end of the diatribe he states that Rush is the only band to use in evaluating equipment. Amazing! See my point? What time of day was it? 3am and the power is nice and clean ,stuff like that means more than little differences in amp topology. Thats the best part of this forumn very little nonsense gets played. I like your SE 84's. May I ask what music, and front end you use? Thanks for Listening. J.R.

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10551 is a reply to message #10550]

Sun, 29 February 2004 08:53

akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

HI J.R.,
I agree with you that almost all subjetive evaluations are ....ahem....subjective, and dependent on many factors such as other equipment in the chain, personal preference etc. Of course, as many of us (and i guesss almost all of us on the SET forum) know, measurements don;t really correlate very well to euphonics, at least not within the range that most equipment operates in.

My current music chain is: museatex cdd transport, museat bitstream dac (awesome even unmodded), zen amp, and either as pair of homemade speakers or a pair of klipschorns. Cables are transpraent plus throughout, except the digital coax between transport & dac si some other highend kimber type cable.

I love the zen amp...it si still my reference amp. I have actually had other people put in a home made2a3 amp that sounded good but maybe too rolled off for me. I may build a 300B later on, just for the difference in sound. I am just curious to see what other people think. I titally agrre with you & appreciate your telling me not to take others opinions too seriously. I have gotten over the ...gee others like it so it must be good and i gotta have it stage.

WHat kind of setup do you have...do you use the zen?
i listen to everything from classical to pop to jazz to blues to country to even rap sometimes.

-akhilesh

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10552 is a reply to message #10551]

Sun, 29 February 2004 10:43

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Excellent response! Please accept my apology if I gave the impression that I thought you were easily influenced or unaware of the obvious lack of correlation between the rather simple measurements we have access to and the sound quality of amplifiers. By way of public self examination I posed my questions rather more rhetorically than specifically. I replied to your post because you seem to be pondering the same questions at this point in time concerning our hobby as I am. My amp is the EAR but I have placed it up for sale due to a decision to build all of my system. At age 52 it is the point where I feel I must either become deeply involved in the hobby or focus on my backswing since its increasingly more difficult to do eveything. This forumn is the most civilised and consequently most useful with in which to pursue this goal.
Have you read Herb Reicherts letter concerning amp design? Its in Soud Practices issue 11. Similar philosophy to Lynn Olsens essay's on the Lundhal Transformer site. This is a learning proposition for me and these guys are a good place to start. I only bring these subjects up in the hopes of eliciting the opinions of yourself and others concerning the points these guys make about amp design. I too will be choosing an amp topology in the near future and attempting to study and build my first amp. How that design drives Pi speakers and what if any considerations unique to Pi's is the information I want. I listen to mostly Vinyl on the Linn with an Empire Gold MC and the seduction phono stage. Like you all types of music, heavy in jazz some classical and some rock. Whew! Thanks for listening.

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10553 is a reply to message #10552]

Mon, 01 March 2004 08:09

akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

I have heard the Zen & the paramours with the PIs.
Both sound good, the paramours have better bass, but the Zen has better midrange. I personally prefer teh zen with the PIs.

I have not heard an amp with the really high end output transformers. THere is consensus among everyone I talk to that the high end output trannies are key, much more so than caps or "silver wire".
I built a cheap little push-pull amp from a kit, and the sound is really quite good (ok i did use cheap silver solder). . I am VERY satisfied with the ZEn. I would recommend you at least hear it, since it has a 30 day guarantee.
I plan on building a 300 B amp...BTW, i would also suggest you look at
www.angela.com the DIY section...there is a nice 300b amp there as well.

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10555 is a reply to message #10553]

Tue, 02 March 2004 07:31

wasteh202
Messages: 137
Registered: May 2009

Master

May I chime in here and ask you guys what Pi speakers you are using with the Zen amp ?

Thanks !

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Re: ZEN Se-84C...anyone compared it to other SETs? [message #10556 is a reply to message #10555]

Tue, 02 March 2004 08:47

akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Wayne had brought some Pis over to some of our audio meets. I am going to go out on a limb here and say they were 2Pis. Wayne can correct me on this if this is incorrect.

The zens balanced the speaker out better than the paramours, which were also pretty good.
-akhilesh

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