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Hi Wayne [message #25495] Wed, 05 November 2003 08:30 Go to next message
Neo is currently offline  Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
Baron
This is really cool that you're into these old radios too.

What is a Rider CD? I didn't get one. Is it offered at Antique Electronics? I'll look for it. My radio does have all the bands I talked about. What I meant about the schematic was that my understanding the radio detectors and tuning circuits is limited. Thanks for the tips on where to get more info. I'll try to get a picture of my radio posted. When I have more time I want to take a longer look at some of your cool radios...

Thanks,
Tom

Rider CD's [message #25496 is a reply to message #25495] Wed, 05 November 2003 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
John Rider made tons and tons of schematics available - Sort of like "Sam's Photofacts" if you're familiar with those. You can buy Rider CD's that have collections of thousands of schematics. They are made available as collections that span a few years. Volumes 1-4 is on the first CD which has schematics for radios made between 1926 and 1934. Volumes 5-8 are for 1934-37, Volumes 9-12 are for 1937-1941, Volumes 13-16 for 1941-1947, Volumes 17-20 are for 1947-1950 and Volumes 21-23 are for 1950-1953. There are something like 35,000 schematics in the collection.

There are lots of good books, so this isn't the only thing out there - That's for sure. I have the Rider collection Volumes 1-16, so I'm familar with them. They've been helpful, especially when buying new radios since I usually already have service information on hand. But there are lots of other good books out there, and you can really spend a lot of time going over them all. It's very enjoyable, and easy to get caught up in. I especially like to look at the parts lists, particularly when prices are shown. You'll find things like a replacement cabinet made of hand-crafted real walnut for an RCA Victor at $3.25 each.

Re: Rider CD's [message #25497 is a reply to message #25496] Wed, 05 November 2003 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo is currently offline  Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Thanks again Wayne.

I don't know the year of my radio. I know the Philco model nbr and I have the schematic, but no dates anywhere. Does using a field-coil speaker put it in a year range? How about the tubes. It uses 2 XXL's, 2 41's, a three 7?7's where ? is an 'A', 'B' or 'C' I think. I'm at work. I'll check again when I get home. I replaced all the wax and paper caps and the electrolitics in the PS. There was no SS rectifier, only the rectifier tube. And I replaced the power cord. Tubes all seem good. that's it. Amazing. Cabinet is in OK condition too.

See ya,
Tom

Re: Rider CD's [message #25498 is a reply to message #25497] Wed, 05 November 2003 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Sometimes dating is difficult unless the model is popular. Let me know the model number and I'll look it up and see if I have any more information. Most old radios used speakers with a field coil, that was popular in most tube radios prior to the 1950's. The tube compliment is a good clue, that helps indicate date of manufacture, at least within a decade or so. I find that many of the radios with two-digit part number tubes are late twenties and thirties models. I've seen them used in radios through the 1940's. Tubes with part numbers that indicate filament voltage - like 6EU7 - are generally in radios from the 1940's up.

I almost always swap all the capacitors in old tube radios. Seems those old capacitors are usually bad or at least weak. Wires with cloth insulation are usually still good but those with plastic should probably be replaced. The plastic becomes brittle and cracks off, exposing the conductor. It's a pain but worth it to get a spool of cloth-insulated wire and replace all the wiring, one section at a time. Same thing on the power cord, replace it if frayed. I've fixed a bunch of old tube radios, and sometimes every tube is good, it just needs capacitors and TLC.

Philco model 41-280 [message #25499 is a reply to message #25498] Fri, 07 November 2003 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo is currently offline  Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi Wayne,
The '7' tubes I mentioned are 2 7b7's and a 7c6.

Thanks again for your help,
Tom

Re: Philco model 41-280 [message #25500 is a reply to message #25499] Fri, 07 November 2003 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
In the Rider CD's, I see a Philco 46-280 and a handful of 41-xxx models, but no 41-280 listed between 1926 and 1947. Sometimes it's that way, and I'm not sure if the Rider documentation is incomplete or what. Each of the Philco radios I saw were made in WWII years, or shortly afterwards. So I'll look for chassis that use (2) 7B7 tubes and a 7C6.

By the way, I have a NOS 7C6 tube if you need it. I bought a bunch of NOS tubes and I've kept many for my own personal stash and I'm selling the rest on eBay. Every one that I've put on the tube tester checked out 100%, so I got very lucky with this purchase.

Re: Philco model 41-280 [message #25501 is a reply to message #25500] Sat, 08 November 2003 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo is currently offline  Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi Wayne,
Thanks again for the info. All the tubes seem to work nicely, but good spares wouldn't hurt. The 7C6 is a strange tube. I seems to have 3 plates! It's labeled as the 1st audio stage.

My schematic covers 41-280, 41-285, 41-287, and 41-290(121). Are any of those other models in your book?

I called Dave Miller. He's in Tulsa, OK. He wants $55 to recone.
My current one sounds very good on voices and not that bad on everthing else. I think I'll save his number and wait 'till my new scratch Foreplay project is complete.

Thanks again,
Tom

Re: Philco model 41-280 [message #25502 is a reply to message #25501] Sun, 09 November 2003 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

In my Rider CD's, there are models 41-81 to 41-105 and models 41-722 to 41-759. There are many 42-xxx models, from 42-121 up to 42-1016. Several of them have the (121) suffix like you've listed for your 41-290.

So I don't have any solid information about that radio, but I'm still betting it was made in the mid-to-late forties.

Have you connected a long wire antenna to it yet? Can you pick up any shorwave stations?

On another subject, I just bought Jerrod Harden's Foreplay and ordered the Seduction phono preamp. I already have a pair of Paramours, so soon I'll have a system that's tubes from pickup coil to speaker coil.

Last night, we had a great meeting at Mark Margiotta's house. As soon as Mark sends the photos, I'll post on the π Speakers forum. I took my Stage Seven π's and Paramours. Front end was a NAD C160 preamp and a Sony CE345 CD changer. Phil Wilson also brought his Decware Zen Select amp, so we could A-B the two amps.

We listened to music from Natalie Cole, Frank Sinatra and Dianna Krall. This is really the music that these kinds of systems sound best with, in my opinion. Where normally people visit during events like these, we all found ourselves sitting quietly through several songs during this meeting. But then one of us would make a joke, or get something to eat or drink, and we would all "snap to" and start talking about one thing or another. But for several minutes at a time, a particular pasage would come along and hypnotize us all over again.

Many of us wanted to compare the Paramour and Zen amps since the last meeting. As you might expect, the Paramours delivered deeper, flatter bass. It is particularly insensitive to woofer load, so it did better in this regard. But I think the Zen sounds cleaner in the midrange, and everyone there did too. The Zen guys are all quite proud of their little amps for this reason. They don't hum as much either. But in fairness, the Paramours were stock and many say that improved parts make a big difference.

It isn't surpising that the Zen would have a little trouble in the bottom octave since the Omega 15 used in the Stage seven π speakers generates a lot of back-EMF. You could hear some bass notes louder than others from this combination, as is to be expected from a very small tube amp on a monster-motor speaker.

It should be remembered that this speaker/amp combination has not been recommended, and yet the truth is that the pairing sounded good enough that about half of the people couldn't hear any problems in the bass and prefered the sound overall. You really had to listen closely to bass note progressions to notice the difference. But there is a bit less bass overall, and a slight tendency for some bass notes to be louder than others just a little. The up-side of this combination is that the Zen's midrange sounded noticeably cleaner, a unanimous opinion of everyone present. And the amplifier also generates a little less hum.

All-in-all, I think both little amplifiers are an excellent value and very seductive. Their prices are about the same and I think both are an excellent value. I don't know why I got off on the subject of the Zen and the Paramour, but you mentioned your Foreplay preamp and I still have this subject on my mind.

Re: Philco model 41-280 [message #25503 is a reply to message #25502] Tue, 11 November 2003 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo is currently offline  Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi Wayne,

Thanks again for all your trouble. I just noticed that on my schematic that I got from Antique Electronics, it says it's a RIDER document. So they must have found it on one of the Rider CD's and copied it for me. Maybe I should just ask them.
Thanks for Paramour vs. Zen comments. I've got a Parabee built now and my brother has my Paramours on indefinite loan. He loves 'em.
But when I first put in the Parabee's, I heard more definition in the mid-range too. I had no desire to put my Paramours back in.
Due to some unfortunate family circumstances (my wife has become alergic to wood dust - amoung other things) I didn't think I could build the Pi sub-woofer plans you sent me. But I was talking to a very generous friend down the street and he is willing to let me use the table saw in his basement! So... when my new Foreplay is done I'll start work on that. I think I'll use the Omega Pro 18. The other ones seem to be for more power than I will ever need, so why pay for the extra-strength.

I've got some wire on order for a 100' antenna for the radio. I'll let you know what the results are. I was hopong to just string it up around the basement where I have the radio, but maybe higher would be better?

Thanks again for all your help and interest...
Tom

Re: Philco model 41-280 [message #25504 is a reply to message #25503] Tue, 11 November 2003 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I think you'll want to string that antenna a little higher - You can pretty much assume the higher the better. As for the Rider schematic, I guess maybe your radio schematic is included in one of the volumes I don't have.

One of these times, I'm going to check out those Parabee's - There's a guy name Greg that lives nearby and who has a pair. We'll have to get him over at one of our local audio club meetings and compare his with the stock Paramours and the Zen.

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