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Patriots/Nationalists [message #56568] Sun, 31 July 2005 08:45 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
The definition of Patriotism is, "The Love of a Land and It's Peoples and Culture."
Nationalism is,"The Fanatical Support of The Power of a Nation."
Hitler once wrote in Mein Kampf,"I am A Nationalist; Not A Patriot."
Which one defines you?

Re: Patriots/Nationalists [message #56569 is a reply to message #56568] Sun, 31 July 2005 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Well, everyone tends to say "a patriot" for himself, and "more modern" people say "neither, we are in 21st century", etc.
A good question is what (and who) makes our opinions and why.
One interesting band from Slovenia explores this field (totalitarism, nationalism, ideology, occult, war) for 25 years - Laibach.
I remember when some people from their circle published a nice May 1st poster- power of working people or so, power of socialism, unity, etc. And then confessed that they only changed the words on some old Nazi poster... Big scandal in former Yugoslavia, haha.
Their last "hit" is inspired with "Deutchland/American friendship":-)
Eins, zvei, drei, vier - meine freunde tanz mit mir!

Re: Patriots/Nationalists [message #56570 is a reply to message #56569] Sun, 31 July 2005 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Vas mit du? Nien sprecken zie Deutsch.
So which side are you on?

Cross of Iron [message #56571 is a reply to message #56570] Sun, 31 July 2005 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey, don`t ask too much - maybe you`ll don`t like the answer:-)
I remember the story by Ch. Bukowski, "Beer in local bar" or so. He just wants to drink some beers, and then some folks (who obviously don`t like strangers) ask him this and that, and through simple answers he gave them they concluded that he hate The Country and everyone else, in a word - evil Nazi bastard...

Video [message #56572 is a reply to message #56571] Sun, 31 July 2005 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey, you can watch the video "Tanz mit Laibach" on "Yahoo!Music" site...

Re: Video [message #56573 is a reply to message #56572] Sun, 31 July 2005 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I'm still trying to figure out who they are. There's an old saying; ask and ye shall recieve. So I'm trying to recieve.

Re: Video [message #56574 is a reply to message #56573] Sun, 31 July 2005 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Go to Yahoo!Music and type Laibach in search window. Then you can find their biography and three videos. I like their version of "Across the universe" - kids in "Hitlerjugend style" uniforms sing "Nothin` gonna change my world", hehehe...

Anarchist [message #56576 is a reply to message #56568] Sun, 31 July 2005 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
You’re not allowed to hear the president in person without a loyalty pledge and a ticket. Even then you can be dragged out into the street by political operatives because you look “suspicious”. “You’re with us or against us”.
The government's been usurped by the corporations, and everything they tell you is an outright lie, but nobody cares.
The land is populated by unthinking acolytes who perpetuate the rule of the corporations because by swallowing the advertising of the corporations and acting on it without thinking.
The rule of law has been subverted to the benefit of the corporations.
Search and seizure are no longer restricted by constitutional guarantees.
Cops play “find a joint, win a house” and no judge will stop them.
Perpetual war has been declared. Anyone who doesn’t support perpetual war is a traitor.
Free speech is permitted only in “free speech zones” (and you thought the whole fucking country was a free speech zone).
Can you support anything else but anarchy without being a serf?

Re: Anarchist [message #56577 is a reply to message #56576] Sun, 31 July 2005 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
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Illuminati (13th Degree)
Put Charlie down for the Patriot side; anyone else?

Re: Anarchist [message #56582 is a reply to message #56576] Sun, 31 July 2005 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18682
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I agree with you, Charlie. Honestly, I think both major parties are equally guilty, and I think the media spins the shit out of everything we see. When you think about it, it's surprising how propogandized and conformist our culture really is.

Most of us actually believe what we are told, either from one side of the aisle or the other. We may have a rebellious streak, but even our rebellion has conformity. Americans like the independent, rugged individualist and we all like to think of ourselves as being that way. But the truth is "rugged individualism" is not really an asset here. It sets you apart, makes you an outcast. The trick is to be highly conformant, and just unique enough to stand out, to appear unique.

I don't chime in on the political discussions here, because it just doesn't really seem the place to do it for me. I talk about things on a much smaller scale, one in my field, closer to home, so to speak. But the sockpuppeting thing we discussed recently is similar to what I think happens in the political arena in a huge way.

Public office should be about trusted service. That's what it should be. But what it is, is an effort to exert power. In America, the land of the free. Politics is nothing but exit polls, talking points and sound bites which is propoganda using media-friendly phrases. The information we receive is highly polished, doctored and analyzed for impact. Campaigns are polished and produced, and there is no such thing as public education or fact-finding for the people, not in public, not in the universities, nowhere. Action committees and spokespeople are bought and paid for.

In short, all politics is sockpuppets and shills. It is deception at the core level, and there is not a single person that can be trusted in the entire chain of command, from president down to court clerk in the smallest town. Neither party, in fact, party affiliation doesn't matter. The system just isn't setup to encourage honesty or ethics. Quite the opposite, it is setup to encourage deception and trickery, so naturally, only the ones best at deception will prevail. The one that wins is the one you didn't want to win, no matter what.

I don't think it's the Rebublicans fault. And I don't think it's the Democrats fault either. I think it's all of our faults. It's my fault too.

Every time I avoid court because it's a hassle and "no one wins," I give up a little more freedom. Every time I submit to a seat belt law or a search at the airport, I relinquish a little more freedom. Every time I vote, I pick one of two because any other would be a waste. Two choices. That's pretty close to a single choice. Multi-party systems have problems too, they virtually ensure a minority will win. But two choices? That's not a choice, that's an oligarchy. It's not a Republic, it's not a Democracy. It's an Oligarchy.

On the other hand, thinking that way isn't very productive. Every time I watch a two minute "expose" on network TV and form an opinion, I'm part of the problem. Every time I get excited about something, think I know what's best but really just became emotional about what I saw on TV, I'm part of the problem. My job is to check myself, be careful not to get swept up in an emotional belief system. Instead, Think. Decide. Act. Don't analyze, discuss and ignore. Do what I can do today, don't get worked up about the things I have no influence over, and make no mistake about which is which.

I'm a flag waving American simply because Americans are my neighbors. I'll stick by them. But every time I see a road trap and realize that the cop isn't sitting there for anyone's safety, he's a tax collector - Every time I see that, I get pissed. Every time I see someone discussing he morals or ethics of a situation in someone else's life, I get pissed. Every time I see a judge make a controversial "decision", I get pissed.

About the only thing that doesn't piss me off is when I go do something that helps someone else, and I stop thinking about all the damn politicians. I'm better off not wasting time and getting upset about things that are out of my hands. I'm better off when I do something here, today, locally, where I have a small chance of actually doing something that might benefit myself or someone else.

But I still hate the manipulative bastards. I'll have to work on that.


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