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description: Audio advice and discussions with audiophiles and professionals. Free discussion forums, open to all and frequented by industry experts. Ask questions and get advice on stereos, speakers, hi-end amplifiers, pre-amps, home theater, tube hi-fi, turntables, vinyl, tweaks, music, films, video, DVDs and more.
items: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
items: Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
items: OptiMOS
items: Re: OptiMOS

Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: Okay. I've settled on the corner horns (assuming the cardboard mockup doesn't turn out to take up half the room). However, the component level is still up in the air. Of course, like any good (i.e. pain in the butt) customer, I would like to have the Audiophile stuff at the Theater price. Since I know that isn't going to happen, could someone give me the relative differences in sound of the (strengths, weakness, quirks, nuances, etc.) of teh different levels. My original budget dictates the Theater components, but I may be willing to part with a bit more money if I feel teh extra expense is justified. Thanks in advance for the input.
creator: Spinjack
date: 2005-03-02T22:47:49-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: I had Theatre 4's and then Pro's but with Altec 806A not JBL 2446. The JBL 2226 woofer is quite a bit more detailed and puts up a more "realistic" soundstage. The Altecs go a little higher, I think than the PSD-2002's and, again, allow more detail and air. That said, the Eminence Delta/PSD-2002 combo is very musical, dynamic and has great weight in the bass.
creator: BillEpstein
date: 2005-03-03T00:10:01-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: I have to agree with Bill on this one, go JBL if possible. Shop for used, it isn't that bad. I bought them for about 1/2 of retail used. I am also a big altec user as well. my ears tell me the 2002 has a bit more high end than the altec, but I of course prefer the altec overall by a good bit. Also, Bill is using the 806, which I havent tried. I have tried other 1 inch throat compression drivers from altec, like the 802 8D, 808 8b, 902 8B, and 908 8B. That said, the 2002 is an excellent driver as many here will atest to. And it is at a very fair price point to be sure. If you do go with an altec high end, I would be glad to share what I know in sorting out the various models and prefered diaphrams/mods for them. Some of these models are very similar to each other with slight design changes for specific purposes. Most can be "changed" to equal other models. Different diaphram materials and rear chamber dampening methods are typically all the differences are, along with magnet type alinco or ferrite. Some are set up to handle the extreme power and abuse of PA use. Some of these models don't work quite as well as others for home hifi, where extreme power handling is not am issue, but detailed reproduction is...oh no, another headache to sort out! Russellc
creator: Russellc
date: 2005-03-03T01:23:23-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: awhile ago, Bill Martinelli (who makes wood horns and speakers) wrote a very good post or two about the differences. Search the archives and it should be very helpful for what you're trying to figure out....
creator: Matts
date: 2005-03-03T04:08:23-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: What amp will you be using? In general, the best sound comes from the best parts. But there are some cases that tilt the scales one way or the other. Those cases are usually set by the amp. I've used Eminence and JBL Pro drivers for over 25 years. In all this time, their basic characteristics haven't changed much in my opinion. Both sound good, but I can always tell the difference. I can usually tell the difference within a matter of seconds. Eminence has improved their cast frame drivers and recently come out with low distortion woofers with shorting rings. That's narrowing the gap. But I'd have to say that JBL still sets the standard. They're willing to go the extra mile in R&D, and it shows. Having said that, I'm very pleased with Eminence's Magnum drivers, as are used in the Audiophile Series. Eminence's introduction of shorting rings is a big step in the right direction, in my opinion. I hope they'll contine to focus on R&D and improve them further. I hope they'll bring out new models too. But they'll only do that if people buy them. Otherwise, they'll leave the premium driver market to JBL and other high priced competitors. Eminence also removed the dust cap and replaced it with a mesh on some speakers. The mesh doesn't contribute much to sound, and the end result is a big reduction of breakup modes. If you run high frequencies to Eminence drivers having the phasor and mesh dust cap, you'll find the upper response very rolled off. That doesn't matter much in π speakers designs, but I think it is worth mentioning anyway. When using a solid state amp with a lot of power, the JBL 22xx woofers definitely sound cleaner to me. This is almost always the case with good tube amps too. The JBLs have very effective shorting rings, so that makes sense. They have reduced distortion. The Eminence Omegas sound very powerful to me, as do the Kilomax woofers. But they aren't quite as clean. The Magnums are squarely in the middle, if you asked me. But in some cases, if you're u…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2005-03-03T07:33:01-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: To answer the question poses at the beginning of your post: I will start off with an EL84 based push pull tube amp with wimpy output trannies driven by a Foreplay line stage. The amp is scheduled for a rebuild once I finish the Seal Electronics OptiMOS push pull (Class B) solid state amp I'm building. The OptiMOS will start of at about 100amps, which is a bit on the low side for the design, and will be beefed up to about 200 amps once I getsome bigger power trannies. The tube amp will be give larger, higher quality output transformers and will have all its caps and resistors replaced (the left/right gain is different and there is a buzz in the right channel). Once both amps are complete, they will be paired with speakers based upon what woks best. Right now the tube amp and Foreplay are driving a pair of Fostex 203FE based BLH's in the family room. Is teh crossover design the same for each component level? If so, I might start out with the lower cost design and upgrade later. My biggest concern with that route, though, is that there will be an audible 'mismatch' between the drivers. For instance, if I substitute a JBL for the midrange while still having a Eminence bass and tweeter unit, will there be a 'disconnect' in the sound?
creator: Spinjack
date: 2005-03-03T13:20:52-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: I read the thread you referenced. It was talking about 4 Pi's, but The discussion was still applicable. Thanks for the lead.
creator: Spinjack
date: 2005-03-03T21:13:04-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: There are a few combinations that I think sound good together, and those are the ones I have listed as options on the π Speakers shopping cart. Check the drop-down box options there are you'll see the choices. Each of those are combinations I've made and really liked. There are a few other combinations I had hoped would work, but they didn't and aren't listed. So check there to know what choices I liked best. Each of the drivers chosen has good response characteristics and controlled cones. None has annoying breakup mode resonance or anything like that, and each covers the range, so response is nice. Also, since the range is the same, intermodulation isn't a function of drivers. The main differences between them are in their harmonic distortion and their general build construction. When making improvements, I prefer upgrading from the bottom up. Where harmonic distortion is concerned, it makes sense. The harmonics generated from woofers tend to be in the midrange and maybe that's why it is most noticeable to me. Harmonics from midrange drivers are shifted up into the overtone or treble region, which is another area that is important. But I think woofer harmonics are more noticeable. Harmonics from tweeters are shifted up very high in frequency, so while I think distortion performance is important there too, I think it's the least noticeable.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2005-03-03T23:35:27-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: Thanks for all the assistance. One last question: prices. Per pair or each?
creator: Spinjack
date: 2005-03-04T00:37:59-00:00

Re: Theater vs. Stage vs. Premium vs. Audiophile vs. Pro
type: item
description: All prices are for individual speakers.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2005-03-04T03:29:34-00:00

OptiMOS
type: item
description: How did you find the service of Brad at Wilson Consulting. I was ready to buy into the OptiMOS last Nov, even though it was a little more than I wanted to spend. Traded a couple of emails with Randy who was great. Very helpful with information and fast to respond. He directed me to Wilson Consulting, but I found Brad frustrating. I had to keep sending him reminders to answer my email. And I was only asking very basic questions, like what boards are available and pricing. Finally, I got fed up and moved to another option. He never did get back to me with pricing information. Gar.
creator: GarMan
date: 2005-03-04T13:02:02-00:00

Re: OptiMOS
type: item
description: Actually, I've never had to deal with Wilson Consulting. I worked entirely through Randy. But that's probably because its been a year since I started on the things and I still haven't finished them (mainly for lack of the output inductors and a autotransformer to bring the voltage up slowly for the first test). Its a shame to read that Randy has pawned off his tech support to someone else. I know he licensed the rights to the design to Zus, but hadn't heard about Wilson.
creator: Spinjack
date: 2005-03-04T17:43:39-00:00

Re: OptiMOS
type: item
description: Well, if you can get a hold of Brad Wilson, he has Randy Slone's power amp auxillary board available as a kit, which includes a soft-start circuit. No idea what it costs. http://pages.zdnet.com/diyamp/id7.html
creator: GarMan
date: 2005-03-04T20:55:22-00:00