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items: Ukraine
items: Re: Ukraine

Ukraine
type: item
description: What started out as a noble fight against a dastardly aggressor has turned into another fine mess Olly. The United States has co-opted many governments and regime's since WWII. Studies have listed over 64 covert and 6 overt regime changes since then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change Ukraine is the latest in that our State Dept. essentially did a carrot & stick with Ukraine to go up against an opponent far superior in strength and capability to thwart the misaligned dream of joining NATO to encircle Russia. A fantasy of our own neocon national security agencies. The result has been billions dollars and Euros of arms sent in a vain attempt to have Ukraine by proxy, fight the Russians and even maybe topple Vladimir Putin. The Ukraine's are finished essentially. We couldn't even provide enough artillary shells for them. The dead and wounded are in the 100's of thousands. Such an unnecessary waste of human tragedy. And we antagonize China as our next target of a Crusades like war mongering project. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/09/how-will-the-biden-administration-cope-with-its-loss-in-ukraine.html#more Our country is in the throws of a vexing dilemma of it's own making. And it uses the military industrial complex that Dwight Eisenhower warned about to try and carry out dubious national security perceptions. The rest of the world with the majority of population thinks otherwise now. That's a good thing.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-21T20:13:00-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I hope Ukraine is victorious soon. I'm really upset to see what I consider to be more like a civil war than anything else. And it's not even a real civil war - Ukraine is already independent. It's just that there were lots of people in Russia, Ukraine and in the Crimean peninsula that share family ties and deep friendship bonds. Those have been severely tested and, in many cases, irreconcilably broken. You may remember Alona from the 1990s. She and I have maintained a friendship and I also remain pretty close with her brother Alex, who is a soldier in Ukraine. Their family lives in Odessa, and I've been there several times. I don't really consider the politics - I just side with the people I know there. I do what I can to help. Since I know them personally, I send a little money from time to time. Like I said, I don't think about the politics to consider whether money from our government is being well-spent. I just want the people I know to be safe. Beyond that, I know that the novi-russki and Putin have gone off their rocker. Ironically, the people of the former Soviet Union used to see the United States like a "spoiled fat cat" and imagined Americans as narcissistic entitled people, looking like the man on the monopoly game box. To some extent, we have been entitled and we are lucky to have what we have. We forget that here in this country sometimes, and we probably have for over 50 years. So to some extent, that view of Americans is a little bit true. We can be a little bit entitled, and our politicians are probably not the best examples we could be proud of. But Russia has way outdone us there. The narcissistic traits of Putin and his allied oligarchs have pushed so far past human decency as to rank them more as sociopaths and psychopaths. They are as entitled as any human can get. So now the Russian people might want to get their own house in order before looking over here at us. A little over 100 years ago, the tovarish (comrades) of the Bolshevik army assassi…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-09-22T23:28:50-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I empathize with the Ukrainians, but they can't win this proxy war. You see, it was a diplomatic boondoggle from the get go. That is the machinations of our Pentagon diplomacy. It's a political FUBAR of the first degree. Like all of America's foray's in foreign meddling, coup's and wars. The tragic consequences are always the people, the human suffering the destruction and we dust our hands off and traipse off to another "encounter". Ukraine I've read has had a turbulent history of conquests and occupations, but it's primary alignment has necessarily been the function of neutrality with it's sovereignty. The west has antagonized Russia since the fall of the Soviet state in the 90's. It has done so with NATO. After the cold war ended NATO expansion commenced. Against promises first to Gorbachev then Yeltsin to the contrary. Economist Jeffrey Sachs is a good reference to this as he having been placed in Russia as an advisor to the government for restructuring their economy then. Which none of his advise was taken over objections by our orthodox economic hierarchy. Another story. Needless to say, a red line ended with Ukraine and NATO influence with Putin. As you say, their mutual history. Imagine Mexico being armed and aligned by the Chinese. As George Bush famously said, "This will not stand". What would this country do? What this war has revealed though is NATO's weakness. Our bloated military industrial complex that can't supply even enough artillary and "uber" weapons that get destroyed like any other. And Russia's ability to dance around our foolish sanctions we illegally, (world court) dish out to nations. As a side note, Venezuela. Who's population hurt by it are now at our border crossings. And Russia's economy that was suppose to be crippled has regained it's footing. Especially in military industrial production. The Ukraine's are outgunned and outnumbered by a large margin. And they have sustained terrible loss of life and wounded. This war should end as soo…
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-23T12:22:13-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi, interesting viewpoints. I generally won't get into this type of discussion, but this being a rather non-adversiorial (ie friendly) site I will put a few thoughts on this topic. On others it is too likely to cause hard feelings and problems. That everything is all screwed up is a given. But it begs a few questions. First does anyone feel it is OK for one country to just take over another? And perhaps a caveat on that if so under what circumstances? A specific one is since the USSR once controlled some Baltic countries would be interested if they tried the same thing there? Should we interfere? If so, why? To protect our global influence, needed resources (from others)? What do we gain or lose if we get involved? The world is now a global economy whether we like it or not. We don't have to like or agree with everyone, but it is in our best interest not to piss someone off enough to cause the end of civilization. Indeed, life would be a lot better if we all got along. A pipe dream for sure. On sanctions I agree...they are largely ineffective. Saber rattling and threating are equally useless. Since there are now several countries that have the ability to cause a nuclear war, the actual threat is not so strong as it once was. If started, the initiator will be as badly destroyed as the target(s). No one wins, a lose -lose affair. Now we have a mostly conventional fray that really no one wanted and it is unclear how to end it. A big complication is the overlap of the populations. The entire region has a mix of several cultures and trying to draw a line where one starts and another ends is really difficult. Worse, the geography of the region is no help separating one area from another. One thing I believe is that wars are waged by the leaders. The general population would like to just carry on their day to day lives. I place almost all of the blame on Putin for this war. I suspect he thought and was advised by some individuals that he could just take over the parts of U…
creator: gofar99
date: 2023-09-25T02:22:31-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: All it would take is a call from Biden to Putin to get serious talks going and a cease fire. The Ukraine's will have to give up the eastern territory and Crimea that were essentially Russian in character. If the Russians were oriented by conquest of territory. They would and could march onward to Kiev. They've held a defensive line in those eastern territories and Crimea that are a buffer. Crimea is strategic to Russia's national security. Something our country makes quite a bit over all the time. Remember a country called Iraq that we invaded over false pretense. The National security hand was played. Most contrary evidence I've read and listened to of this affair. And isn't reported on by corporate news outlets other than regurgitating official news release, is that our State Department and diplomacy was pivotal in crafting this mess. Remember the Cuban missile crisis. The Armageddon clock was the closest, (yet?) to all out nuclear war. Because WE put missiles aimed at Russia in Turkey. We have had a long subversive and antagonistic history with countries that have been economically aligned with socialism and communism. Always as an existential threat. John F. Kennedy gave a great speech afterward towards the understanding and communication with countries in the world with divergent ideologies to ours. Meaning talk, listen, cooperate. That which is lacking in todays strident political posturing. And we antagonize so with China now. They are the most successful economy the world has ever witnessed in such a short time period. A socialist country. Now an existential threat to our State Department. Our antagonism and dollar diplomacy has given rise to the BRICS coalition by the countries of the world that challenges our Super imperialism over the last 70 plus years. I know I must seem perhaps, un American with my views. I don't believe in the phrase, America, love it or leave it. Our country is special. But I feel it's being led into ruination by self imposed denial …
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-25T11:46:30-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I don't agree with that assessment, and please do remember - I'm coming from a position of knowing several Russians and Ukrainians. I've been there. Ukraine has many citizens that are Russians or that have Russian roots and they still consider themselves to be Ukrainian and oppose the war. They feel betrayed. The Ukrainian population is a mix of Russians and Ukrainians, mostly Orthodox Catholics and Jews. Almost all of them consider themselves to be Russian and Ukrainian, or at least they did before the Putin war. Crimea is somewhat independent of Russia and Ukraine. It has a long history of being that way. But it has been happily independent of Russia and a part of Ukraine since 1991. The Sevastopol port has not been Russian since then. Crimea was illegally annexed by Russia, which is a much different thing than independently deciding to join Russia. That is a fact. I can tell you with a great deal of certainty - that comes from knowing people that came from all parts of Russia, Ukraine and Crimea - that this is not at all something anyone wanted except Putin and some - not all - of his novi-russki cohorts. They are just ugly, greedy, power-hungry psychopaths. Stop watching folks over here on the television. They are just talking heads, spouting propaganda. Mostly, it's people that don't have a clue about what they are talking about. They just latch onto something they think is a story and blab on about it. Some people, though, apparently have gotten into bed with one or more on the novi-russki and they then have their own agendas. And some in the media talk about that. But it isn't a political thing, certainly not one of empire-building from the West. If we wanted to do that, we could have done it at any time after 1991. I personally wondered why we didn't back then. Ukraine wanted to be part of the West, and actively strove for that. They would have been a great ally, especially back then when Turkey seemed to be having problems with radicalized religious zealots…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-09-25T14:20:53-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: That is very much anecdotal coming from the populous. Governments have agenda's. All governments. What goes on in the halls and offices of Washington, Kiev, Moscow where ever is an amalgamation of ideology, special interests and conjecture. Sometimes for the public's benefit. Not often. If you read from educated professionals and journalists that do their just do to ferret out the fiction from reality. You'll get a much clearer picture of the way that geopolitical events transpire. A little history of the former Soviet state after collapsing is that our government led a team of economist to essentially transform the former Soviet communist economy to our western neoliberal financialized kind. Known at the time as, "shock therapy". Needless to say the advent of the Russian oligarchy came into being as a result. That is finance capitalism. We have our own slew of oligarchs. I don't take stock in corporate news sources. They are nothing more than journalistic sell outs. This whole affair in Ukraine is nothing but political. From the get go. This war has been sold to the public here in the US and Europe as a fight against pure aggression and dominance. Good vs evil. There is so much more to it than what is reported or will be reported from a perspective of agenda's of the states. Submitted for approval, or not. Two very telling articles that reach deep into our flawed perceptions of NATO, and our diplomatic arm of the Pentagon. https://thefloutist.substack.com/p/ukraine-before-and-after https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/21/jeffrey-sachs-nato-expansion-ukraines-destruction/ None of this applies to being a bleeding heart liberal or a hard ass conservative. It is about the realities of our world.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-25T15:17:57-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Dude, I'm telling you I was there in the 1990s when those bloggers didn't exist. Nobody in America - including our politicians - had any influence in that area. Nobody here cared. Not for better or worse, no harm no foul - just saying we weren't exerting influence there. I wish we had been. It seemed to me it would have made sense. And it would have been easier then too, 'cause the novi-russki hadn't had time to exploit their stolen resources yet. I remember hearing them brag in the 1990s that they lost more oil from inefficient wells than America produced. I heard that because a lot of my computer customers were oil businesses in Oklahoma and Texas and they hoped to sell completions equipment to Russia but couldn't deal with the novi-russki 'cause nobody with any ethics (or sense) can deal with guys like that. The Russians at that time were making oil wells without PBR technology, which is a process Americans invented in the early 1900s. It prevents waste and also makes the wells more clean, because there is an outer casing filled with brine (saltwater) and an inner tubing string that flows the oil. The tubing string can be replaced when the acids in the oil damage it. So since the Russians weren't doing that, the casings eroded and the oil seeped out into the earth. That's why they had so much waste, and there was mutual interest in improving Russian oil technologies. But again, reasonable businesses couldn't work with novi-russki so lots of deals fell flat. I saw lots of them, lots of attempts and lots of failures 'cause legitimate American businesses just couldn't take the risk of dealing with Russian mobsters. They hoped to be paid in oil - which would have worked nicely - but they were dealing with total thugs and it just couldn't be done. Back then, America political interests were not interested in stepping in in any sort. It was all too small and too insignificant to be on our radar. That one fact alone should tell you that we weren't interested in empire-b…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-09-25T16:13:31-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Well actually, we did have influence in post Soviet economic planning. The western Shock therapy mentioned. This is a historical fact. Sorry. I understand your personal influence having been to that country in that era. And from it I can understand some of what you're conveying as having merit. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But I trust the analysis of Jeffrey Sachs and others in an official economic advisory capacity who were there too during that period. The chosen pathway was with financial liberalism. Privatization, monopoly rent, selling off assets, debt. Entitling the few, at the expense of debt deflation for the many. Rather like our own economy now. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/03/22/1087654279/how-shock-therapy-created-russian-oligarchs-and-paved-the-path-for-putin I think most of the disinformation coming out of this conflict is from the vested interests of American and European Union have invested politically, monetarily and militarily in weapons in this debacle. The Ukraine offensive is stymied as it never had a chance without airpower. Probably why we haven't sent our expensive aircraft to be shot down or our jet powered tanks to be blown up. Still, it didn't have to occur. But the results are certainly real. As they always are from our foray's into other countries business. The list is long, but primary examples are Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. As Mr. Ritter in his analysis laments, we choose not to believe despite the evidence. That's been the way with individuals, and governments, forever.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-25T18:10:48-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The article linked in your previous post describes the Russian situation in the 1990s pretty well. You might want to read that article again. It says exactly the same thing I've said here in this thread. It describes the novi-russki, the attempts to privatize by vouchers and the beginnings of the problem that we see now. We had very little to do with it. I wish we had done more to help the situation back then when it would have been more manageable. There was one big event that happened back then where the West was involved. Well, not so much involved, more like made aware. When Ukraine agreed to release its Soviet era nuclear weapons in 1994, it did so with an agreement from Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States to provide Ukraine with security assurances in connection with its willingness to sign a non-proliferation treaty as a non-nuclear weapon state. The four parties signed the agreement at that time. But that's about all that happened back then. Nothing concrete was put in place to set actionable consequences for that agreement. But other than that, there really was almost nothing happening. If there had been large-scale Western influence in the 1990s, it would have been visible. Western influence is only visible now because it's happening now. It wasn't visible in the 1990s because there wasn't anything to see back then. What you could see back in the 1990s was attempts at influence from darker forces in Russia. Sometimes, the Ukrainian president or a mayor of a large city would be poisoned. This was common if a pro-Western official was elected. So even fairly early on, this kind of stuff was happening. It was sort of like what we saw in Chechnya, but bigger. The West did nothing about it until very recently. Maybe that's 'cause we didn't need to do anything, I don't know. But still, there were no big pushes to bring Ukraine into NATO or anything like that. There was no economic planning or financial infusions of some sort from the West, other than…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-09-25T20:07:45-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Well I don't know if you were involved with high level governmental planning or advice back then. But if not. How would you see it? I mean, this was, is administrative high level planning. This isn't something the public see's in this country. The Russian government itself sought out western economic advice then. What probably was visible was how traumatic it was for the public to go from government subsidized housing and other social support from the Soviet era to the crunch of western influenced financialized privatizing. People having a hard time coping with this new economy. That has been documented. But hey, McDonalds restaurants came into being there. As far as the nuclear INF treaty with Russia. The US withdrew from it in 2019. The US has been arming and making inroads with Ukraine since 2014. https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/#:~:text=Since%202014%2C%20the%20United%20States,and%20improve%20interoperability%20with%20NATO. And encouraging via our State Department in the regime change of Viktor Yanukovych keeping Ukraine neutral towards a pro western, pro NATO oriented successor. NATO is the singular most largest reason for this war occurring. And now it's seen as a paper tiger with the ramifications of what this tragic unnecessary conflict has brought forth. It's shameful. I guess next on to Taiwan in our Crusades quest in Democracy vs Autocracy. Our country just can't get enough war mongering to satisfy it's desires.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-25T22:53:35-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I understand what you're saying and I have no doubt you have investigated this very thoroughly. You have a curious mind and I'm sure you have studied this matter. But I've studied it too. I don't care about the credentials of an author or a source if I think they're gaslighting me. In fact, throwing credentials around is one of the best tools of a gaslighter. I don't need to try to understand their motives - if what is being said doesn't square with observable events, I disregard them. Since I know people in and from Ukraine, Moldova and Crimea, I'm interested, and so I stay informed. And sometimes I see things on TV and on the internet that don't square with what I've observed. So if I see things like that, I disregard them. What I know is there was little apparent Western interest in Ukraine in the 1990s and there's a ton of it right now. That's obvious. There's a war going on and we're sending lots of support to Ukraine. We didn't support them like this in the 1990s. It's not like the players changed, at least not since 1999. Putin and the novi-russki have become more emboldened in the last decade, that's really all that's different. And that's why I'm saying what I'm saying. I do not think America or any NATO nation is or was using Ukraine as a puppet. If we were, we could have started that long ago. It would have been easier then, when the newly-independent countries were forming. I didn't see anything like that happening in the 1990s. We just let 'em be. And maybe that was the right thing to do. But after Russia invaded Ukraine last year, we jumped to their aid and I'm glad. In hindsight, I wish we had done that in 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. Or maybe even before that, I might have liked to see us engage Russia in the 1990s when they were at war with Chechnya. Back then, I thought Russia was protecting its economic resources since Chechnya fought for its independence. Now I think I was wrong and that Russia should have allowed Chechnya to have its indepen…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-09-26T00:16:52-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Yeah Wayne, I really didn't understand dwelling on that period of time from you. Learning of your connection there. I don't know really under what auspices or how long. But, other than the western economic advisory mission to Russia's new economic standing. There wasn't really any American presence in that part of the world. The cold war was over. We won! But diplomatically in Europe the NATO advancement begins. This isn't gaslighting from a source like Jeffrey Sachs. This is what transpired. And when he says that assurances to Gorbachev, then Yeltsin that NATO would not expand. He's telling the truth. There is documentation to back it up. In good faith Russia dissolved the Warsaw Pact because of those assurances. But slowly, diplomatically, all the Baltic countries aligned. This was the slow encroachment of a military armament in countries bordering Russia. With missiles aimed at Russia. The cold war was over but nonetheless, it wasn't. Ukraine whose name historically itself means "borderland". Russia has had a long history with it. The fact that our government took advantage of Ukraine's burgeoning desire to align with Europe, then NATO with a subversive regime color revolution in 2014 was the beginning of what is now this terrible conflict. The Minsk agreements both failed to end fighting in eastern Ukraine due to American arming of Ukraine. Now we're doing that in Taiwan. It's called in popular diplomatic parlance, turning a country into a porcupine. That is our long history of subversive and clandestine meddling in other countries affairs. That is what has been the impetus of the formation of the BRICS initiative. Our meddling and our sanctioning and our war mongering.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-26T12:45:16-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I was going to leave this thread lay, since I think we came to a good place to let it rest. But I did want to say one more thing, to clarify myself on the comments I made about gaslighting. I am generally purposely non-specific about my thoughts and opinions on political matters and about the policies and laws of the United States for a variety of reasons. But I don't have any problems talking about the comments I've heard from private individuals and especially those in the media or certain so-called "influencers." I've seen folks spinning the facts to a point that they are actually not facts anymore. These are textbook cases of gaslighting. They describe a version of "reality" that has distortions. It's most effective when there are plenty of true and demonstratable facts mixed in with the distortions, so maybe the audience doesn't notice the distortions and simply believes them. Even better if they cannot check the facts, or if it's inconvenient enough that they won't. Not everyone does this, of course, and I've seen plenty of sources that are spot-on, or perhaps I should say they relay the situation in a way that makes sense and that fits with what I have observed over the years. I don't intend to name those I've caught spinning the facts or outright lying. But I will say what makes me most sad is some of the gaslighters are actually people I agree with in many other respects. Sad to see those because that makes me check them off the list of reliable sources. Let me give you one example, one of many. I won't get into the details too much and instead leave that to the reader to research if they are so inclined. Look at the situation with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Most people in Ukraine are Orthodox or Jews. There are also some Moslems and other religions. Some are atheist or agnostic because of the Soviet years, but frankly, most people are not. Most are Orthodox Christian. There's a problem there though. There's a schism that has formed in the church. In th…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-09-29T17:10:29-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Yeah Wayne it's difficult for the public to disseminate information in our world. Always has I reckon. Nowadays though we have tremendous media and social outlets to give this, that and the other opinions, critiques, judgements and agenda's to sift through. I go by what adds up to me. All anyone can do. Our mass media does not give much nuance from toeing the line, especially in international affairs to what government agencies give out. I've found this to be the case too often. A good example would be the so called Chinese SPY balloon that created media hysteria months ago. It was a damn weather balloon is all. General Milley confirmed it not being able to transmit over the US. It's still referred to the spy balloon though. Probably to save face. But the political theater then went so far as the military sending up jets to shoot down essentially a hobby balloon in Alaska released by ham radio enthusiasts in Illinois. That points to our hyped up foreign relations with China and other countries we deem as a threat. I have gone from Putin/Russia disdain in the beginning of the Ukraine war to what this thread I created has led me. By what I can disseminate from what I feel are reliable and reasoned sources. Government's do not reveal their poker hand to the public. They have agenda's, they have skin in the game. The public and whatever ethical journalistic source that you feel are un-politicized enough and curious enough to explore what the contradictions lead to are your best judgement for what there is to go on. That goes for the public in Ukraine as well. They don't know all the cards being told them are a good hand either. I'll leave it at that. But I stand by my posts.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-09-29T19:14:16-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: In light of the current situation in Ukraine and whether or not our congress will further fund this fiasco. This article gives a breakdown of the breakdown of negotiations going back before hostilities commenced in earnest. A detailed account of the various peace negotiations that transpired and the influence that the United States and Great Britain had on them. A reflection on our diplomatic and Imperial world order ideology. It is a pattern that has played out since the end of WWII and the idealistic notion of exceptionalism of our virtues as a template to instill our democracy in the world. The toll on Ukraine has been devastating. It is a war that did not have to occur. Ukraine could have stayed neutral and bring in all the neoliberal economic doctrine it desired to exploit its working class it wanted. The NATO component was their undoing. https://braveneweurope.com/michael-von-der-schulenburg-hajo-funke-harald-kujat-peace-for-ukraine
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-11-14T13:50:23-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I know, I know. Just another influencer to supplement my faithless notions that Truth, Justice & the American way will not prevail in the end. I can't help it I guess. But I think our nation is and has pursued a failed ideology for too long. Like a chronic disease. This article I think is rather amusing, in the vein of black humor. But it points out that some in our elite journalistic publications have come to realize that maybe our policies aren't working out as planned. But nonetheless, double down on the ideology that is outdated and self defeating. https://sonar21.com/some-neo-cons-slowly-coming-to-grips-with-reality-in-ukraine/
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-11-18T15:05:01-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Honestly, dude, this just ain't about us.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2023-11-19T14:54:24-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I don't agree Wayne. There is too much factual accounting by reliable reasoned sources to dismiss it for me. One thing though. Our State Department will never admit to any involvement. That is their history of spinning denial. National security you know.
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-11-19T17:57:57-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: "Lets just fight". Eazy for him to say. You do the fighting & dying. We'll supply the weapons. Here's a Ukrainian TV interview with David Arakhamia. Head of the Ukrainian delegation of peace talks prior to the Russian invasion. Then British prime minister Boris Johnson visiting Kiev announced that the western, (US, Britain and NATO countries), made that statement and said they would not sign the document for Ukrainian neutrality. Which was the "main point" Russia had insisted upon. Russia's red line. Russia beat our sanctions. Taken the territory that could have been bargained with before. Not now. They've improved their economy. Aligned with the southern tier of nations to form BRICS to de-dollarize. And they've decimated the Ukrainian army and the NATO weapons that made no difference. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin visited Kiev recently that military pundits referred to as, "a hospice visit". It's starting to unfold. The subterfuge behind the war. The war that didn't need to be. Thousands... Dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G_j-7gLnWU
creator: Rusty
date: 2023-11-25T22:05:41-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The Propaganda that Damned Ukraine. The title says it all. Article by Charles Freeman, retired Diplomat, and Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Not an influencer. A realist and man with geopolitical experience in high places. What he knows from experience in the realm of diplomacy and governmental calculations. The bottom line he expresses here is the complete depletion of Ukraine. For no damn good reason. War, was not the answer. His summation: Finally, this war should provoke some sober rethinking in both Washington and Moscow about the consequences of diplomacy-free, militarised foreign policy. Had the United States agreed to talk with Moscow, even if it had continued to reject much of what Moscow demanded, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine as it did. Had the West not intervened to prevent Ukraine from ratifying the treaty others helped it agree with Russia at the outset of the war, Ukraine would now be intact and at peace. This war did not need to take place. And every party to it has lost far more than it has gained. https://unherd.com/?p=487346
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-01-07T21:06:55-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The Current Situation in Ukraine, from the United States Institute of Peace Latest Ukraine Updates, from the U.S. Department of State War in Ukraine, from the Council on Foreign Relations The War in Ukraine Is Not a Stalemate, from ForeignAffairs.com, published by the Council on Foreign Relations Russia's War in Ukraine, Insights from RAND
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-01-08T00:09:50-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Official straight up PROPAGANDA. This is what the state department and of course the RAND corporation, a think tank highly aligned with the Pentagon in planning and ideology puts out to assuage the public. The Mighty Wurlitzer: https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Wurlitzer-How-Played-America/dp/067403256X
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-01-08T12:27:27-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi Everyone, I was about to pass on this one as I find that this sort of topic is heading into a direction that will cause resentments in normal and hopefully sane folks, but I believe some of the information is slanted and does not agree with events. To be sure our government and indeed all others will engage in things they don't tell us about. Not everything is as pretty as portrayed. I strongly suspect it was much worse during the active portions of the cold war. Also I consider misinformation a key element of policy for governments. It has been a key strategy since the beginning of time. Indeed it can sometimes avoid conflicts. Ukraine would now be intact and at peace. This war did not need to take place. I seriously doubt this statement. Russia wanted some things that would be unacceptable to any county. More territory (they already took Crimea) and wanted the two eastern parts of Ukraine. They wanted to tell Ukraine they could not be friendly with NATO and join it. And so on. Would your opinions be the same if Mexico said they wanted Texas back and we could not enter into agreements with Canada? No answer required, just food for thought. Russia wanted to take the areas without a fight and influence policy unilaterally that is for sure and the results so far have not benefited anyone. They figured (most likely) they could do what the did in Crimea. Just rattle the sword and move in. The Ukrainians had a few other thoughts. I would as well. So while we may never know all the details it seems clear to me that no amount of talking would have stopped the war. YMMV
creator: gofar99
date: 2024-01-10T02:10:12-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: We Americans are not well versed in international relations. We tend to see ourselves as the center of this world's affairs and happenings. Yet, we represent a mere 4.23 percent of the world's population. Our foreign affairs has reflected that. Particularly since the end of WWII when our dominance was established economically and militarily. As a good deal of Europe and Eurasia, (Russia) were in ruins. Russia alone bore the brunt of that world event. 27 million civilian and military dead. America's loss in comparison, (400,000) pales in comparison. And a country unscathed from destruction. But we took the reins of world dominance in most all metrics of a society at its peak. The last 50 years or so has not weathered well comparatively in those metrics internally for our country. But our State Department and military have not shown the same decline. Our adventurism into other countries "affairs" has not shown a good deal of positive outcomes for the populations of the countries we engaged and the political turnaround we'd anticipated. A quick check on our military interventions initiated throughout the world since the big war is 201. Our State Department also has a long list of overt and covert dealings that a look at Wikipedia shows a host of regime change and coups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change Ukraine is part of that list now. And we very much did use overt and covert influences years prior to Russia commencing its military operations.The 2014 coup of Ukraine's sitting president at the time that had advocated neutrality has our diplomatic hands all over it. The overt part was to start arming Ukraine with weapons. Russia had negotiated with Ukraine to "lease" the ports of Crimea prior to the two Minsk I an II talks to end hostilities in eastern Ukraine. Eastern Ukraine Bruce that is Russian speaking and Russian sympathetic. Our State Department and the NATO alliance was instrumental in refusing to "Sign" a last ditch trea…
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-01-10T12:58:43-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi, I didn't mean to imply we were always the good guys. We are as imperialistic as any of the historical ones. I agree that war is not the answer..ever. Unfortunately, diplomacy fails to work a lot of the time. It presumes that all parties concerned are intelligent and will act in a manner that is beneficial not only to themselves but everyone else involved. I suspect that issues that can not be solved diplomatically will increase in the future. Sadly, the problems of resource availability will complicate an already messy future. When (not if) shortages of potable water, sufficient food and due to sea level rise dry land become severe the aggressive nature of our species will rear its angry head even more. It may be that some of the aggression now seen (like grabs for territory) in various parts of the world are early indicators of these issues. It saddens me as I don't expect to actually be around to experience it..but my children and grand children will. Where did we (collectively) go wrong? A long time ago it seems. Now that we seem to be facing the initial phases of the problems we tend to pass blame to anyone but ourselves and hope they go away. Fat chance this time. We (again collectively) only try to correct problems when we are smacked in the face with them. It is easier to pass the buck than take corrective action. I would really love to be wrong, but based on history and present events I don't see it. I like to be optimistic, but current trends don't appear to support that sort of thinking. Sorry to be a bit negative, but such is how I see it now. YMMV
creator: gofar99
date: 2024-01-13T02:25:43-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I can agree with the gist of that Bruce. But my gripe is our continued antagonism in the world that we put a blanket claim of national security and "rules based diplomacy" on. For instance, we're doing the same with Taiwan as we have with Ukraine. It's called turning a country into a porcupine. Arming it. My stance is. It's none of our damn business. China and Taiwan can work out their mutual history and claims on their own. Just as Russia and Ukraine could have. Until we stuck our nose in. We as a nation have overstepped our bounds with impunity with foreign relations. History documents that. And if you understand the underpinnings of the BRICS coalition. That is a direct response to what our nation has carried out with it's entitlement of the dollar standard in trade since the Bretton Woods conference after WWII. Principally our financial sanctioning of countries, freezing their assets, taking their gold, (Venezuela). And our massive trade imbalance we've run up using bonds rather than goods to trade with. We tried sanctioning with Russia and it blew back in our face. But we now want to take their assets tied up in western banks to promote more funding with the Ukraine debacle. Instead of making overtures to end this unnecessary conflict. Our country has so many domestic issues to be better financed than what our military escapades and 7 to 8 hundred military installations throughout the world needing more and more funding each and every year now. And a military industrial complex that like our health care industry. Is the most expensive in the world and is fraught with cost overruns and overly complex expensive unreliable weapons systems. Mind you we couldn't even make enough 155mm shells to support the Ukrainians. Basic material. I feel sorry for the Ukrainians. They've had a complex history with Russia and with Europe. They have lost by some accounting, (they won't release a count) hundreds of thousands of young men and women in this quest. And this war cannot …
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-01-13T14:45:00-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I recently came upon this blog that I find really interesting for thoughtful analysis via a westerner's take on Russia. In lieu also of the recent interview of Mr. Putin by the controversial personality Tucker Carlson. Putin later groused that all he threw him were softballs. He was ready for whatever heat Tucker could throw him. I listened to it and it backed up my revision of Putin, and the Russian federation as it stands in the world today. This blog also augments the revision I've been cultivating for a while trying to get an idea of what current world events are and why they are. Like I've tried to express in this thread, is that our slant on what's going on in the world is somewhat tailored to the dominant ideology presented in news platforms and official government releases. But what is the other side saying? Contradictions arise that shouldn't be dismissed. Of course as the well worn acronym goes. YMMV. https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2023/12/30/listen-to-what-hes-saying/ What's the latest dampening effect to the Putin interview? The revelation of Russia's space weapon! The Mighty Wurlitzer playing away.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-02-18T15:23:29-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The prior and this are hopefully indicators that the more mainstream press will elaborate on with continuance with this war. This piece is an interview with an on the ground UN coordinator that's seen first hand the terrible cost this war. Like all wars do to people. I hope there's some traction going on in high places to be sane and rational. https://news.un.org/en/interview/2024/02/1146752
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-02-24T17:24:22-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: A lesson of wisdom. From former ambassador to Russia Jack Matlock. It's well worth anyone taking time to listen to this senior fellow speak of carrying out U.S. diplomacy at the time of the Soviet Unions breakup. And his narrative on the position of the former Soviet ideology, socialism-communism compared with the U.S. ideology, democracy-capitalism. How they were used towards diplomatic initiatives and military policies. Mr. Matlock gives a very intimate look from actually being there to what the historical ramifications were then and are now to the current war in Ukraine is all about. As he states at the end of his interview. Ukraine and Russia are basically in a sense having a "family dispute" that is being meddled with by outsiders. Great interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxjD02QnvJU https://jackmatlock.com/2022/11/there-must-be-a-negotiated-settlement-with-russia/#more-1023 https://americandiplomacy.web.unc.edu/2024/02/the-christmas-gift-that-keeps-giving/
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-03-06T16:23:39-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Sir, I guess you know now. This means War! What? weren't we at war? This paradox of the west to the goings on in Ukraine is typical to the delusion that helped create the special operations in the first place. Since the Ukraine's can't any longer carry out a legitimate military assault along the fortifications Russia has built in the territory now annexed. Ukraine does what it can with what little it has, trying to inflict pain inside Russia. It will not be tolerated. The west grouses over Putin's reelection, saying its a hoax and rubber stamped. News outlets did their duty to produce propagandized articles as to so. Non corporatized journalism gives a more realistic appraisal. https://www.indianpunchline.com/putins-victory-is-a-geopolitical-reality For a more nuanced view of current activities in Ukraine. The Moon of Alabama blog is indispensable. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/03/russia-is-at-war-.html#more Any idea of exacerbating this conflict by going head to head with Russia by NATO will be idiotic to say the least.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-03-22T16:44:08-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I'm not a fan of J.D.Vance. I don't believe in Libertarianism as a viable, realistic means of running an economy. I don't support or ever will Donald Trump. But he nails it with an opinion at the N.Y.Times. End this insufferable conflict. Whether one believes in the heroics of aligning to a NATO nation with all the words of freedom & democracy attached. Ukraine cannot ever win this war and never could even with the support of the US and NATO countries. Period. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-04-12T17:04:18-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Our legislature is debating over funding for two now unjustifiable wars. Both premeditated on ulterior aspirations. Things the public is kept in limbo over. Unless one takes the effort to sift the wheat from the chaff of propaganda. Another aspect to the funding is the electioneering going on in the cycle of US politics. The Ukraine dilemma particularly seems attached to saving face for an initiative doomed from the beginning. When the virtue of a state's sovereignty and affiliation, (Ukraine) is stripped away to show a crap shoot to destabilize another sovereign state in the process, (Russia). The pretense is shown to be hypocritical. Russia will not be compelled to give up its original intent concerning Ukraine. And no amount of re-funding will do anything more than prolong more destruction and death for a lost cause. Drawing it out till a post election cycle would seemingly show a very cynical, ethically vacant philosophy. Here is what the determination that the Russian effort amounts to. A statement from Dmitry Medvedev, former president, now deputy chairman of the security council of Russia. Would it not be better for everyone involved, especially in Ukraine, to take heed Russia's resolve to not be deterred in finishing the job they actually intended. Not the west's version. Which is a fraud. https://expert.ru/mnenie/dmitriy-medvedev-u-rossii-kak-i-lyuboy-velikoy-derzhavy-strategicheskie-granitsy-lezhat-daleko-za-predelami-geograficheskikh/
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-04-17T15:31:57-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Dude! I'm telling you this because we're friends. I respect your thoughts and opinions. But on this one, you've bought into a propaganda that is nothing but hubris. I'm not saying your thoughts are hubris - I'm saying the people you are listening to are spreading an alternate reality that is nothing but hubris. The whole mission from Putin was motivated by arrogance and anyone siding with that is "cosigning his bullshit." I know people over there that are fighting for their lives. Alona's brother Alex went missing - hopefully captured - a couple months ago during a battle near Lugansk. The Ukrainian people simply want freedom and a choice for a free market system. They want to be westernized. They do not want to be governed by Moscow. Putin's government has basically become a nation controlled by mobsters. It's like what would have happened here if organized criminals were appeased and even courted instead of being prosecuted. Not that we're perfect here - sometimes it looks like mobsters run Washington too - but believe me, it's a lot worse over there. I can't believe what has happened in Russia. Their "leadership" is worse than it was during the Soviet Union, which is lower than low. They are now what they claimed to be against. They saw the West as being "fat cat capitalists," greedy and entitled. But in fact, that's what they are now ruled by - the so called "oligarch" novi russki. At one time, those people assassinated their Tsar. What they have now is much, much worse. We, here in America, just do not have any visibility into that problem so we are unable to form an informed opinion. Better to have no opinion than to have one formed by propaganda. Trust me, my friend, the good side here is very one-sided. The good side to take here is "freedom for Ukraine."
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-04-17T15:51:28-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Sorry Wayne, I feel opposite. The Ukrainians could have had, and can still have when this god awful mess is over. All the neoliberal free market misery that we have in our country. The Russians have stated over and over their intent with Ukraine. And it doesn't include reclaiming the Baltic's or for Christ's sake Europe. That is pure unadulterated bull. It's been well established our diplomatic meddling with the current Ukraine government to commit to this futile waste of humanity on the NATO pretense. It could have been averted at the onset of the full scale military commencement. I'm afraid it's western propaganda that has pulled the wool over the public's eyes. I've presented that in this thread and it's anyone's choice to disagree. But as usual with our foreign entanglements. It snowballs into a giant fecal mess. Scores of people perish, destruction is wrought, and we walk away on to other malfeasance. We're doing that with Taiwan. We're perilously close to being pulled into war with Iran with our commitment to indulge a long standing apartheid and now genocidal committing Israel. The governments of Iraq, Sudan and Niger want our military out of their country, that we ignore. The trouble with this country is that it has lost all sense of virtue that it possessed after the end of WWII. We have become as our economic doctrine has shown to be. Selfish, obstinate, arrogant and corrupt. We see it in our politics, our financial institutions and most evidently our fraudulent diplomacy. I understand Wayne that with your connection to that part of the world, that it carries a certain amount of emotional and sentimental weight. With that perhaps a certain amount of bias. These events are all out of that realm. The world of government plans and actions transcend our personal lives till unless we get caught up in actions that get out of hand. Let's hope we don't have to face what the Ukraine's have. I still contend with what I comprehend, they never had to. There are many o…
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-04-17T22:56:52-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: A rational discussion on the irrational foreign policy of nation states. Economist Jeffrey Sachs has a dialogue with political scientist John Mearsheimer on his new book, How States Think. Delving into the study of how nations and leaders with their advisors come to form their international policies. Mearsheimer and his co-writer Sebastian Rosado, looked at 14 cases of international and US national policy decisions and how the process was arrived at. In all 14 they found all to be similar from authoritarian or democratically aligned governments in the way policy was derived. All by a small inner circle of people in the government. And ironically they found that democratic governments tended to "sell" policy to their general public by basically lying by creating a cover story or narrative to bolster their policy decisions. They found that most particularly in the lead up to the US Iraqi war. A very interesting discussion with two highly regarded academician's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvmQAJ8AQU
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-10T00:15:56-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: A key component of how this God awful mess got traction and put into motion is admitted to by Victoria Nuland. Now a retired diplomat to Ukraine. This whole thing could have and should have been averted but for our insufferable, idiotic, stupid, arrogant foreign policy. What the pundits in the know are saying is this will play out until after the November US election. So, let even more lives be wasted in this obscene cause perpetrated by the western NATO alliance. Sick! Just as our Israeli policy is. https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/victoria-nuland-ukraine-peace-deal
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-12T18:27:20-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: My interpretation of what was said in that link is that the so-called "peace deal" proposed by Putin right after his attack was a really shitty deal that nobody in their right mind would take. "Victoria Nuland says about as clearly as a diplomat can that the U.S. scuttled the peace deal on the table in March 2022 because it would have required Ukraine to agree to limits on weapons it would purchase."
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-09-12T21:57:33-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Based on our discussion Wayne I'm not surprised with your narrow interpretation on this. But the article and admission by Nuland gives credence along with other admissions from Ukraine negotiators and even Boris Johnson as Prime Minister of Britain has said. Which a few decent journalists and scholars have been saying all along. That our western NATO influence was crucial in coaxing the Ukraine government towards this proxy war with Russia. Because the lead up even to the Istanbul peace summit had been years prior of negotiations with the civil war going on in eastern Ukraine that we were arming and financing. Notwithstanding the color revolution in 2014 in Ukraine Nuland was largely influential in administering. And the thread of NATO expansion planning in our State Department and Pentagon from the mid nineties on that was to culminate with putting Ukraine in place, the final piece of the puzzle towards 'containing' Russia. Which all along in that time period was and is evidently still Vladimir Putin and the consensus of Russia's government consistently has addressed as a demarcation that would trigger conflict. Our country in the 1960's almost went nuclear toe to toe with the Soviet Union over arms placement in Cuba. Though we had first put equivalent arms in Turkey. But as our policy of the old Monroe Doctrine exemplifies. No other country will impose their influence on our hemisphere much less our very own boarder with military capability. Yet Russia, who lost over 25 million people in WWII by the Nazi's, and has been invaded over the centuries by many countries has no right to sovereignty in their security of their borders. Our country has overstepped our bounds with our concept of exceptionalism and indispensability in this world with our financial/military dominance. It's rather an inheritance from the British empire. That has been played out in history with all the empire states. Romans, Ottoman, Persian. On and on with military adventurism. This Ukraine cha…
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-13T12:10:13-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Another great back story to the wicked web we weave. Jeffrey Sachs, a name I've mentioned several times with respect. An economist that was privy to the collapse of the Soviet Union and was asked to help with their floundering economy then. Recounts his attempts to get policy in place to help with their economic problems. All rejected by our government. He mentions how a fraudulent incentive program was hatched that led to the Russian oligarchy becoming entrenched in their economy. Mr. Sachs had successfully implemented an economic agenda in Poland prior that had used debt forgiveness and a means to ramp up their economy that was similar to the Marshall Plan used in war ruined Germany that helped with the German miracle with their economy. No such respect was afforded to Russia. Who had been our allies in WWII and who essentially destroyed the Nazi's military capability hastening the end of the 3rd Reich. Our Russia phobia has gone on unabated since the end of that war. But it goes back of course much further. Back even beyond from the Russian revolution and the whole concept of socialism and communism. The word socialism to a capitalist is like a crucifix to a vampire. What Mr. Sachs is saying ties into what our whole foreign policy has amounted to post WWII. The wicked web we weave. https://www.racket.news/p/a-true-shock-economist-jeffrey-sachs
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-15T14:27:01-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: That article is a very accurate depiction of the state of the post-Soviet Russian states, not just Russia but all of them. It is also a good description of the economic conditions that helped the novi-russki - the class of criminals we call oligarks - grow and become immensely wealthy and powerful. That class includes Putin. He's one of them. He became their ringmaster. Head mobster. The article you've mentioned here also describes what the USA did to influence the economy and politics in that region. Nothing. We paid very little attention to the post-Soviet states after the wall fell. Good article. Thanks for the link.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-09-15T15:38:02-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Absolutely. Jeffrey Sachs is very accurate with his analysis. And what he recalls is the purposeful neglect of helping the Russians. Unlike what his efforts in Poland received from our government. Had our State Department and political biases not been so intensely demeaning with the Russians. Their chances of economic recovery would not have been so arduous and long. Nor would their oligarchic development gotten such a hold. Mind you that was our policy incentive scheme to them. And it was fraudulent. Just as it is with our very own oligarchic players in our economy. The ones that pull political strings with our government with campaign contributions and lobbying bribes. Jeffrey Sachs is one of the main proponents of pointing out our deranged foreign policy and complicity in the Ukrainian fiasco. It would serve the public well to know about him and others that have been the beacon of truth to the political perversion that's been going on for so long. Putin has benefitted with the system in Russia. Like our politicians have benefitted with the system here. But reading his statements and speeches in comparison to what I heard from the "Great Debate" last week. I can only hope some providence keeps check on our republic.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-15T19:43:19-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Back then - in the 1990s - most of the former-Soviet states were all buddies. They all felt themselves to be Russian by culture but hopeful to "westernize." They wanted to have the "good life" that they perceived we have in America. But they all thought themselves as Russians. By this, I mean the Ukrainians, Moldovans, Armenians, Belorussians, Azerbaijani, and many of the other former-Soviet Moslem states. There were some former-Soviet states that were anti-Russian - like Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia - but most were not. Most former-soviet states were more than friendly to Russia and considered themselves to still be Russian, at least by culture and language. They often identified as such - for example, you could ask the residents of these countries their nationality and most of them would say, "Russian." But they did consider their countries and their politics to be Western-style democracies - they were proud of their independence - and they were hopeful for change. That is true of Russia as well. The majority of people there were hopeful to become a free market country, to enjoy economic success and to trade with America and Europe.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-09-16T14:11:20-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I think if you were to read more of Jeffery Sachs and other progressive economists. That you would come to realize that our country had and still has nothing but contempt for Russia. As it has for since beyond the Russian revolution and back to Britain's disdain going back to the 19th century. Our economic involvement with Russia after the Soviet collapse was only insofar as what our oligarchy thought it could gain out of their natural resources. Oil and gas mainly and minerals. Yes, Russia and all the former Soviet states were ready for westernization. The centralized planning of economy was an inefficient way to promote innovation from competition promoted by the private sector. The west was still on a roll then from the Keynesian economics having influenced our economies. But Neoliberalism was taking hold from it's establishment fully from Regan's two terms. Capitalist financializing was getting a toe hold. And financial dominance in an economy is parasitic to its society. At this point Russia has no interest in being a part in the western neoliberal, so called, free market economy. They and China, India, Brazil and South Africa are the original members of BRICS. And the combined trade within BRICS and other countries willing join are greater than our G7 countries. This wouldn't have gained it's traction if it weren't for our country's shameful and arrogant foreign policy. It's literally forced countries to adapt away from our economic policies. This wouldn't have happened without the miracle of China's socialist government and private business hybrid economy. Particularly with their main banking sector being a public entity. No private, financialized, speculation that plays havoc with our economy. We are our worst enemy to ourselves. But we lash out at trying to hold on to our perception of the worlds only exceptional, indispensable country. The party's over. We may antagonize China, try to contain Russia and bully smaller nations to play by our rules that we ma…
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-16T16:22:15-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I think there's a huge disconnect between the populations of all the former-Soviet countries and their governments. And I think that's largely true here too. I think we are growing more and more disconnected from our government here. But that is maybe sort of beside the point. I think the point is - one that we seem to agree upon - that Russia and frankly, all of the former-Soviet countries were largely ignored by the United States until fairly recently. We did nothing to help their economies or to pull them into any sort of alignment with the United States. To be very honest, I wondered why we did that. It seemed to me that when the cold war wall fell, we would want to embrace that. To "finish the job," so to speak, but in a good way. It seemed so possible to me. There were literally millions of Russians - from all of those countries - that wanted to embrace the west. They were starving and living in what you or I would consider cheap apartments. Families with a mother and father having advanced degrees living in squalor and starving to death. They definitely wanted change and saw the west as the way to get that change. They idealized us. I remember back then very well. In the early 1990s, many of my customers were oil companies, mostly manufacturers of equipment for oil-well completions. These were companies that made pump-jacks, engines, tubing, packers, liner-hangers, etc. They started trying to trade with companies in the former Soviet Union. But the problem had already started. The novi-russki had already started buying up the stock in the oil companies there. Our American companies couldn't do business with them - not because they were afraid of ethics laws (which would have been another hurdle to jump) - but because control of the oil companies was already being taken over by thugs. It was literally unsafe to do business with them. So these American oil equipment manufacturers didn't even have a chance to start talking about how to navigate what would have b…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-09-16T17:44:22-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I don't buy that. That Russia is just a bunch of mobsters with nukes. It's no where as bad as in the mid 90's under Yeltsin. It was a very unfortunate botched effort in Russia and of course our country that made no effort to help. Jeffrey Sachs gave up in disgust. Putin didn't enter the scene until 99. And he has broken up the worst corrupt oligarchic players and has taken back into public domain some important industries. Putin is enjoying a high degree of public support now. And contrary to naysayers the Russian economy is doing well. Better than ever thanks to the formation of the BRICS coalition. And despite our bitter sanctioning. But like Sachs and others are and have been saying since hostilities. Overtures towards peace negotiations is crucial for the sake of Ukraine's remaining servicemen and women. They have suffered terrible casualties. There's no sense in prolonging the inevitable. The hold up as it was in the mid 90's is in our political disdain of Russia. It's counter productive and unwarranted. It's very easy to vilify a nation through it's leader. And our national security organizations have done a thorough job of it. It's used to shape public opinion for what that small group of people in high places desire to project in foreign policy. The fact is. Russia will not stop with this effort until the threat of NATO is removed from any possibility of being in Ukraine's future. And it will hold all the territory it has taken. That's the way it will be. Sorry Joe Biden.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-17T00:42:32-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I can remember very well when Putin was appointed Prime Minister by Yeltsin on New Year's Eve in 1999. I personally thought he was going to be a good leader. He seemed charismatic and energetic, and I kind of liked him for a few years. But everyone I knew in the Russian community in Tulsa warned me that he would be terrible. I didn't really understand why. I still don't know how they knew he would be terrible so far back. But they were right. In the early 1990s, Yeltsin had endured a pretty unstable government, especially in its parliament and with its connection to the military. There were some close calls, especially those in October 1993. But Russia had gone through a huge upheaval. Their instability was understandable - I don't see that it could have been any other way. Their whole problem was how to make the government transition more stable. By the late 1990s, Yeltsin's hope in Putin was that he would control the novi-russki, and to make sure that those people and organizations that took over sectors in the public and private spheres would be responsible to the citizens and good for the nation. It was a little like the efforts in the USA to control organized crime by creating the FBI. But instead of the Russian government reducing organized crime, it embraced it. Putin cultivated relationships with the novi-russki mobsters that were both potentially powerful and who showed loyalty to him. He arrested or killed those that weren't completely loyal. So over the couple decades that have passed since then, the Russian government became what it is today. That's why I call the Russian government a "bunch of mobsters with nukes."
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-09-17T15:25:13-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I think that's a matter of conjecture with the continuous paranoia of Russia and Putin in our foreign policy beliefs. His standing in his country is solid. The people there are enjoying a better quality of life now. And the Ukrainian war is justifiable throughout their publics consensus as well. They'd like it to end for sure. They have lost many lives as well. This is our doings by design that like our policy in Israel and the general mess we've made in the Middle East over the years. Bosnia, Vietnam. The list is much larger and contributes to where our standing in the world is nowadays, economically and politically. We have no rational diplomacy. As Jeffrey Sachs points out. https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/w8jwrwhcnmf9bf2dmwfy57l85r47af Do we continue with this charade? Upping the ante proxy-wise with Russia by hinting at long range weapons to strike within Russia to keep this fiasco going. Endangering a bigger more dangerous war. A war with tactical nuclear weapons then full throttle nuclear exchange. For what? For prestige, to keep our numero-uno concept intact? The slogan of, "Ukraine is fighting for freedom & democracy" is being replaced by senator Lindsey Graham hitting the Sunday talking head shows a couple weeks back that Ukraine has vast mineral deposits that will be subverted to Russia and China if we don't keep this going. Then there's China we antagonize constantly. This policy is nutso!
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-09-17T16:25:44-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Let's dispense with all the political theater that permeates our culture. We are ill informed and led astray by an apparatus set up to justify an ideology that has now pushed itself to the point of being unmanageable. The 'majority' of the worlds population wants to be able to take part in being economically successful. But our country and our allies are apposed to that. We lead by being petty and arrogant. That's been the hallmark of colonialist empire management forever. It's a pattern associated with the past that should and must end for future world development and management. This dialogue exchange shows how the futile efforts of our western culture to try and keep this 20th century ideology going into the 21st century is counter productive and threatening world peace. Peace for the prosperity of all sovereign nations to pursue. Without one dominating country to make the rules in its own favor to sustain an ideology and it's wealthy classes benefit. https://michael-hudson.com/2024/10/a-world-pushed-to-resist-u-s-policies-and-the-rise-of-global-alliances/
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-10-01T15:53:05-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: An example of the stupefying manipulations of our national security agencies and the think tank operations that craft the corporate news outlets to follow their tabloid narratives is the latest idiotic blurbs that North Korea is sending troops to help the Russians fight in the Kursk region and in Ukraine. About as dumb as what the Chinese balloon scare was. Its so easy to shape public sentiment with propaganda. Like Trump does, just put something outrageous out there and keep saying it. Like the Haitian immigrants eating dogs and kitty cats in Ohio. Or his perpetual stolen 2020 election. Are we that gullible to swallow this tripe? Unfortunately so. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/10/ukraine-hyped-threat-of-north-korean-soldiers-expands.html#more
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-10-19T19:38:45-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: It's the narrative. Propaganda fed to the corporate press to manage and persuade public opinion. Ukraine is in its last throws of conducting this fruitless war of attrition. Foisted upon them by their corrupt leaders and our corrupt national security apparatus that influences our corrupt political apparatus. So, another country in a now among a long history of countries affected by our foreign policy to try and maintain our hegemony in this world. Its an abomination. Here's how the narrative has played out via the NY Times. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/11/ny-times-announces-ukraine-narrative-change.html#more I feel disgusted with our country's behavior with the Ukraine disaster and primarily with the Israeli genocide we have permitted. All in our quest to maintain our semblance of control. We continue to torment and torture little Cuba after all these years. By vetoing a referendum, now done annually, and voted yes to end our blockade on a poor Caribbean Island by every nation on Earth save the US and Israel. Because it has stubbornly refused to become a neoliberal puppet to our way of doing business. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/10/1156316 And not to change one iota with either candidate we vote on Nov. 5.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-11-02T15:24:16-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Boiling the frog. Has been America's strategic aim with conducting its proxy war with Russia this last two years. But its readily apparent that, like our blanket and targeted sanctioning scheme won't work with a determined and resourceful opponent. Russia has the resources financially and by alliances to brush aside our petty and arrogant financialized punishment system we use with impunity that is against international law. Which our rules based diplomacy based on our own rules to make and break whenever it suits our neocon exceptionalism of world order. Lame duck Joe Biden up's the ante in his remaining term in office to turn up the heat on Russia for reasons that only reinforces the notion of the bankrupt philosophy of even manipulating this conflict to begin with. Allowing longer range missiles to fire into Russia by the losing badly Ukraine corrupt administration. Russia answered with it's own ante. Not a tit for tat. But an exponential display of force. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/11/how-the-new-russian-missiles-are-changing-the-game.html#more
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-11-27T16:30:06-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The Art of War. And a means to curtail it. From the weekend wrap up at the blog, Moon of Alabama. A great source of international and national journalism unfettered by corporate media editorial boards that won't touch on the controversies of contradiction. Starting with how the philosophy of administering warfare differs between Russia and western military strategists. https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/the-missile-will-always-get-through And the Chinese answer to our military harassment and free trade hypocrisy. Deny the raw material for the ability to make weapons. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/12/could-chinese-control-over-strategic-minerals-coupled-with-us-corruption-cripple-the-sputtering-us-war-machine.html Sustaining our foreign policy and military complex for maintaining our delusional supremacy of a world moving in contrary to that is becoming harder and harder. We took reins of a world in ashes from a world war mid 20th century. We were unscathed. We did well with a mixed economy under a legacy of an economic doctrine that allowed government to assist with maintaining a low cost of living for the sake of manufacturing and heavy industrial world leadership. This was replaced by a financial takeover of our economic philosophy starting in the mid 1970's. And the rest of the world has come back to eclipse our economic productivity mainly due to our country abandoning our bread and butter manufacturing and industry. We're declining and denying it from the very top of government and corporate ideology. So, those whom we vilify as autocratic, not democratic, that are ascending are applying their self interest to counter our questionable self interests. Do we want perpetual scheming and war? Is it a profitable means to maintain world leadership, or would cooperation and sharing the issues of the world diplomatically be a better investment?
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-08T15:48:17-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Understanding the Ukraine conflict. Jeffrey Sachs. The United States effort to encircle Russia to the Black Sea. Spanning the decades since the Soviet collapse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiK6DijNLGE&t=2s
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-28T13:08:44-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Honestly, Ukraine and Russia have had conflicts since before America was a nation. What is funny to me is that Russia - in its Soviet days - used to consider itself to be free of greed. But now, Putin and his novi-russki buddies are motivated by nothing but greed. Well, I say nothing, but that's not true. They are also motivated by arrogance and power. The Russian people should rise again and unseat their tsar. Most of the rest of the world is certainly on board with that.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-12-28T15:30:09-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Sigh. I feel our neocon indoctrination of the public is complete. No amount of evidence of our corrupt meddling, our lies. Our own novi-Amerikan oligarchy profiting from our over-bloated military complex being our last means of having any export industry. To supply NATO countries and dictatorships a means of control. History will show just that. Long after our empire minded neocon state of foreign affairs is a footnote. It's sad I think what our own country does in the name of blanket national security. But other countries not in membership of our 'control' that pursue their sovereign interests are the evil empire or under the domination of bad actors. No, we only have to look at ourselves with an honest and critical self evaluation. Like an alcoholic or drug user that is in 'denial' to their own chaotic behavior detrimental to others. Our country has exhibited in history and currently just that. Mr. Sachs points that out precisely and truthfully. Unlike the smirking Victoria Nuland or messy haired Boris Johnson in the video lying through their teeth.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-28T17:24:25-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: There are many Americans that are less than upstanding, to be sure. Many of them are politicians. So I won't defend for anyone or any political "side" without personally knowing them. I will say this though: I can make two observations that I think are so axiomatic, I don't need to know the players involved to draw a conclusion. 1. American politics has devolved to a point where the rhetoric is deafening. It's pretty gross. But even at this low level - and I think it's pretty bad - we still haven't quite resorted to murder. Character assassination, to be sure. It's ugly and even pathetic, definitely. But Russian politicians routinely murder or attempt to murder their opponents. Poison seems to be the weapon of choice, but there have been other methods. So to me, that's a big deal. It's nuts over there. Politicians - and powerful businessmen, for that matter - those that do not side with Putin are often murdered. It's been like that for decades. 2. The Russian oil business is run in such a criminal matter that it is virtually impossible to do business with Russian oil interests without being seriously compromised. Anyone doing business with Russian oil companies is suspicious, and Americans doing this are potentially treasonous. To do business with Russian oil is to seduce oneself with an armed prostitute. She'll wink and flirt and promise you stuff, then threaten to murder your family when you don't do what she wants.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-12-29T02:49:07-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Tsk tsk. Rhetoric and murder do not mix? Those Russkies and their crude behavior leads one to cement their disdain for them. Rex Tillerson, Trumps first Secretary of State didn't mind it though doing Exxon Mobile business with them. But apart from that. Character assassination in our politics is part of the game. And real life assassination a part of our CIA security apparatus. And proxy wars now to contract others to do the will of our neocon fanatics scheming. Ukraine's freedom & democracy as well as the rest of Europe is at stake! We must stop Russia's ruthless territory grab. Like we must stop North Vietnam's domino theory of communist takeover of Asia. Then we must stop Saddam Hussein's mad dictatorship of Iraq. And the spread of Jihadi terrorists in the Middle East in Afghanistan. And Israel has a right to defend itself. We must supply them the means to rid all Palestinians, er, that is Hamas and Hezbollah from the expansion of Israel itself. The Gaza strip after all is prime beachfront property. Then we must march onward Christian soldiers like the Crusades to take on our new mortal enemy, the Chinese. Yeah. Those Russian's are too crude. We're much more sophisticated. And lethal.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-29T12:23:25-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi I hear you Rusty but I am more with Wayne on this. The way we conduct politics and business now are atrocious. The way the Russian Government deals with issues is far worse. A shame for both of us. I believe that a vast majority of common citizens of both countries would rather be left alone to live their lives.
creator: gofar99
date: 2024-12-30T03:03:51-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Seems to me, based on what I ascertain. Is our domestic media is lax in its ethical commitment for unbiased reporting. A good deal of our media is owned by extremely wealthy individuals now. And their editorial boards constrain reporting to fit the common narrative put out by our national security institutions. It's people like the economist Jeffrey Sachs. That have real experience with how the inner working of government(s) are and the people close to policy making that I take note of contradicting the homogeneous media output. He and others paint a different picture to serious world happenings. And why they're happening. Giving context to the gap left out of the reporting of it. There is no factual accounting of what is leveled by our media towards how Russia and other countries that aren't part of the US led association of countries. There is innuendo and a built up narrative spanning decades. Call it spin. The book The Mighty Wurlitzer goes into how the CIA and other national security agencies put that spin through media outlets to shape public sentiment. This has spanned my whole life and beyond particularly towards the old Soviet Union and now Russia. I'll never forget how as a child hearing public messages on the TV with a quote taken out of context by then Premier Nikita Khrushchev. "We will bury you". Quite chilling for a child to hear in those duck & cover days. So if one takes the time and trouble to get an alternative accounting to long standing institutionalized view points. One can learn that hypocrisy is the underlying norm. There is a whole body of evidence such as what Mr. Sachs points to in the Youtube video link that point that out. I just don't buy the crap put out there. And our historical record for our foreign policy helps to confirm that. Your mileage may vary.
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-30T12:37:13-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I really don't like talking politics on AudioRoundTable.com 'cause it's easy to get emotional. It's hard to talk about stuff like this on a messageboard. If we were all hangin' out at a local greasy-spoon, we'd definitely hear each other and our mutual respect would show, so we could have different views without taking even the slightest offence. But on messageboards, it's easy to start feeling uncomfortable, even offended. That's why I limit my comments on these subjects, and usually just leave 'em alone. Please don't feel uncomfortable here. Please take no offense. Anyway, I did want to chime in about propaganda. I remember when I first went to Odessa, I visited with a lot of people and watched a lot of television there. I realized that the Russian propaganda was almost totally ineffective. Everyone there saw through the rhetoric, and everyone had very good visibility into other cultures, namely American. They knew all our celebrities and personalities, and they followed our culture, styles, trends and politics. And by the way - when I say "Russian" - I am combining Russians and Ukrainians. I also include Moldovans, Belarussians, Azerbaijanis, Armenians and a bunch of other former-soviet countries. The people of those countries have one thing in common - they love their people and their culture but mistrust and sometimes even hate their governments. So but I digress. My point is that Russian propaganda is almost completely ineffective at manipulation of their people's minds. Russian people may be afraid of consequences, so they may modify their behavior accordingly and they may not express their true opinions publicly. But that doesn't mean that Russians agree with what they're hearing on the radio or TV, and it certainly doesn't mean they agree with what their government is doing. I mentally compared that with what I saw in America, and what I still see today. We are conformists here, and we are deeply affected by what we see and hear. We may choose a side to bel…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-12-30T15:38:29-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I appreciate Wayne your liberal management of this section of your forum. I hope I haven't crossed any boundaries of propriety by my expressions. Sure, our political discourse in this country is warped. Our society is going through an upheaval again as it has in other periods. Particularly the 60's from the Vietnam experience. Thus when you mention "slime", I guess to me that indicates a deep seated disdain of what you perceive as the "communist system" of governance. I can only say that seems a very narrow interpretation. And that interpretation seems to permeate the replies I've read in this thread. Not that I'm a supporter of that socio economic construct. I've always thought our democracy was a noble flawed ideal. But I've come to learn that the communist system was and is a legitimate experiment with an alternative to capitalism. And that seems to be where our views diverge. I've come to view through studying economics and geopolitical history that our nation in particular since taking reigns as a dominant empire in the 20th century has woven an unnecessary agenda of expanding its influence in the world. By default from a world war that exhausted a large part of the well developed countries. We instilled our dollar as the universal currency. We initiated the United Nations, the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. We did a lot of virtuous things that were positive towards reconstructing the destruction of war. But if you watch the video of Jeffrey Sachs. He mentions no sooner than Germany capitulates to end the war in Europe that was hastened by Russia destroying the Nazi war machine. Britain and our leaders immediately begin the cold war with Russia. Not the other way around. And this has been the case ever since. Since WWII our country with its privileged economic advantage escaping the ravages of war and an exorbitant international currency advantage has given us an upper hand no other country could have. Our prime directive has been perceived as a cr…
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-30T20:28:29-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Another thing from Your post Wayne that strikes me. Seemingly from what you say. You say you don't follow anything about the Ukraine conflict. So you don't try to comprehend what, why, and how this all begat? Just the face value of one country invading another? And what is written and spoken about that is all wrong. From any source? Anyone? I'm trying to understand if you base your interpretation from just personal experience. Being you had some contact with that part of the world. To me that would be valid but a very narrow comprehension. A very thin slice of the whole. Anyway, to me it seems that our personal experiences can't encompass the bigger part of society without some tutelage or investigation. And particularly government and the policies enacted. We vote supposedly for people to carryout the will of the public interest. And from where I'm sitting now, I comprehend a huge disconnect. So, I've tried to investigate why that is. Our economy and our geopolitical stance in the world that contribute to that disconnect. Politics I don't follow with any more interest than a sporting event. Two teams in our system that play offense and defense to control their parties advantage over the other mostly. What comes out of that is compromised that favors the system that gets them elected. Wealth. I maybe whistling Dixie from what I try and fathom. Maybe it's bunk. I've put some faith I suppose in some people, or influencers you've mentioned as mentors. I guess if they were some yahoo doing a blog or conspiracy podcast ranting unconfirmable diatribe I'd be truly seduced by folly. I seem to think though these people have some merit of experience & integrity without any skin in the game towards being celebrity or financially compensated for their opinions. They're as I, truly concerned with the ways of the world. And they have a fair amount of insight to that bigger picture that's invisible to us ordinary folk. The threads of information seems to fill in the gap that seem …
creator: Rusty
date: 2024-12-31T18:24:08-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I really don't like to talk about this stuff much because I can't do anything about it. So that leaves me with just angry thoughts, which are very unproductive. If I can do something about a thing that concerns me, then I do. But otherwise, I really just want to focus on other things - those that I can do something about. I can build speakers. I can work on cars. I design good computer equipment and software. I can be a good friend. I can help others, or at least hang out with them. Those are the things I can do that are productive. Doing them gives me a fairly positive mental outlook, and my "inner dialog" is mostly optimistic. It ain't much, but it's all I can do. If I don't do them, I find myself focusing on these things I can't do, and becoming kind of pessimistic. I gain a negative "inner dialog." That negative inner dialog is what makes me judge Putin and the novi-russki. I think they're all slime. It isn't even the socialist system - it's them personally. I think of them sort of in a sub-human way, as ugly, selfish and decadent people that are bad for their culture and frankly, bad for the planet. Now then, I am fairly sure my assessment of them is correct. I wish I could do something about it - to put them all in jail, and to stop the war in Ukraine. Remove them from power. That's what I think. But that's just me. Same goes for the deal in the "Holy Land." I wish the "People of the Book" would quit fighting among themselves. I wish we could remove every single person that started a fight over there and put them in rehab. Keep 'em there 'til they stopped shooting one another. Make 'em read all of the other holy books, and make them help each other instead of shooting each other. But I suppose it's the pinnacle of arrogance for me to think any of that. So I'm gonna go back to my software tasks right now. And in the meantime, Happy New Years, my friends!
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2024-12-31T20:53:37-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi Wayne and Rusty. I do not usually get involved in political or religious matters especially in a public form. It can cause serious harm to otherwise fine relationships. After a long number of years of water under the dam I have gained some ability to see and respect viewpoints that differ from my own. I too don't dwell on things I can't change. I have learned to accept them for what they are. It doesn't mean though that I must like them or respect the source. I consider the current Ukraine and Middle East situations as the result of nearly insane leaders. The vast majority of residents of those places would much rather carry on their normal lives instead of trying to kill each other. For sure there is a percentage that have a different viewpoint. We have some in the US that keep looking for something to destroy or at least attack. Even though it is not a civil or nice thought, I hope those individuals find their way to their version of hell and do so quickly so the rest of us can carry on with our pursuits. Regardless, I hope that you and your's and all the other members of the site have a great new year.
creator: gofar99
date: 2025-01-01T01:59:28-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Good points by you all. I understand the not being able to do anything aspect. Not dwelling on negative thoughts. Maybe it'll interest you that at the onset of the conflict in Ukraine, I too viewed a slime trail left by Putin and his leadership as repugnant. All the stories about his KGB past, the treachery of his government. The hope that this conflict would vindicate his scheming being his undoing. I've since modified that thinking totally. Which is why I've brought up propaganda frequently in this thread. Like the problems trying to understand the forces of nature. The forces of human nature are complex too, and woven intricately. Studying this with what only is available on the surface won't give any nuance to what things are all about. Fortunately this day and age. There are resources literally at your fingertips. From which one can if interested, gain some insight into todays happenings with some greater comprehension. And what may seem obvious on the surface, is a host of factors running just below that point otherwise. That's what has modified my views. I see a slime trail emanating from elsewhere than the standard consensus. A scheming which isn't consistent with cooperation in this world. Being applied all over in the name of dominance. They call it hegemony in economic terms. It isn't a healthy pursuit. I've found it to be more liberating than frustrating and negative to gain some understanding of the way things are as they are said to be. I've got plenty of other interests and pursuits. But there are major things in societies planning and administration that effect our way of life that, at least for me, too important to be nonchalant about. Just let er ride. Especially now in my latter years of life. I've got time now, what's left, to try and understand to what end they're being done. Happy New Years
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-01-01T14:34:59-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: How it's done. One example of who knows how many. Public sentiment tailored to the Mighty Wurlitzer playing away. Our consumer culture has been crafted forever with ad agency product spin through commercials, jingles, infomercials. "But wait there's more"! The Popeil pocket fisherman can do! Our national security agencies can throw out a lure to the commercial media to latch onto. Subliminal reinforcement to justify never ending meddling our government carries out with sovereign nations we're not kosher with. China seems to be our biggest project yet to try and subvert. Ain't gonna happen. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/01/indictment-debunks-china-hacking-claim.html#more
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-01-03T18:22:54-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Even on network national news tonight January 5th, 2025 reports there is a new Ukrainian incursion into Russia. Described as a bargaining chip Zelenskyy thinks is necessary for peace talks that the incoming Trump administration want to bring for an end to this terrible, senseless conflict. I hope this is true. Whatever, as the motives now in continuing this war is nothing but cruelty to Ukraine. One overriding principal will be non-negotiable. No NATO and no treaty that the US alone can break as we have with too many treaties. The old American Indian adage that the white man speaks with forked tongue is still relevant even today. https://qz.com/1273510/all-the-international-agreements-the-us-has-broken-before-the-iran-deal
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-01-06T00:02:03-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: You know life is so full of irony. You have to have a sense of humor to appreciate how to be able to bend with the wind and accept things. I despise Trump. He's a demagogue and privileged pompous prognosticator of lies and deceit. But.. There are times, there are times like this article where, yeah, he "gets it". So, I'm all for it. I'm with him on this. I don't have any allegiance to stick to any given line of what popular sentiment may be. Things are way too complex and fraught with ulterior motives in this world. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/01/to-avoid-fighting-large-conflicts-trump-is-creating-smaller-ones.html#more Panama & Greenland. That'll blow over. Trump will make the next 4 years seem like a comic book adventure.
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-01-08T16:10:58-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: "I see plans within plans", said the Guild Navigator from the movie Dune to the Emperor. Frank Herbert's fictional intergalactic treachery politics. Earth is also like what probably is the universal constant in the universe for politics. Treachery, chicanery and self serving motives. Its always a good thing to follow up on links from The Moon of Alabama. As in the prior article. There are good journalists out there who dig up the dirt that we're living in. Dirt we didn't make. Our elected officials and the powerful "rich", (oligarchs?) that influence our governments. like the Nord Stream 2 mysterious destruction. Plans within plans. https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/nord-stream-terrorist-attack-all
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-01-08T21:08:13-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Well, hopefully this is the indicator that this terrible tragedy that never, ever need to have ever occurred will finally end. So the people of Ukraine can reestablish their lives and the people of Russia can rest easily that their border with Ukraine will not have NATO missiles pointed towards them. Estimates of 500,000 lives lost from the Ukraine side alone. What a waste. What absurdity. I hope lessons can be learned from this horrible chapter of history. Especially with our own country. That's a stretch. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/02/trump-tells-ukrainian-war-party-that-the-game-is-up.html#more
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-02-12T21:17:00-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The greatest latest hew and cry in media now is in response to Trump's claim Zelenskyy is to blame for the Ukraine war. Always a scapegoat with Trump's narrative. Nobody brings up that he helped instigate with Obama before him the weapons buildup in the Donbass hostilities during his first administration. Why didn't he nip it in the bud then? But US NATO expansion history and Joe Biden's administration were the primary Warhawk ideology behind the Russians committing to their special military operations finally. The offramp last ditch Istanbul negotiations thrown out by the US & Britain. All well documented and open source. Our collective denial to our very own dirty handed foreign policy being the culprit is covered over with the effective propagandizing of a compliant media network more than willing to regurgitate the official narrative fed them. However and whatever. At least the ball is rolling to end hopefully this terrible example of intergovernmental failure to communicate and cooperate. As in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Gaza, on and on. China by contrast last conflict was in 1978 in Cambodia. The Sino-Vietnamese war. Lasting all of one month. Now our enemy number one because we can't compete with them economically. So let's antagonize them, and plan for eventual war. Why? Many point to our inability to deal with our diminishment of our hegemony of being the sole most exceptional nation. We've deindustrialized and can't now just restart that economic priority with a cost of living driven up over decades of financialized parasitism. What Trump decree's to cut losses as a waste for the Ukraine conflict, he maintains the hegemony concept with his tariff threats and call to bring foreign manufacturing here via low taxes. Then lets grab Panama, make overtures with Greenland to be a protectorate and Canada to be our 51st state. Our foreign policy has just reorganized to cut losses in one endeavor and escalate in another. Denial ain't just a river in Eg…
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-02-20T13:37:45-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: This needs to be repeated from another thread. Jeffrey Sachs speech to the European Parliament in Brussels Belgium this last week. Explaining how American foreign policy works. Its overarching strategy based essentially on game theory. Tearing up treaties, lying to the public, covert and overt decapitation strategy of heads of state, and war, lots of war. Hopefully he got through to some of the European Parliamentarians. They need to as he stresses develop their own strategy apart from following American warmongering like puppy dogs. They need to stand on their own for their own needs because our alliance hasn't done them any great favors. Germany's economy is a wreck now due to this fiendish following to our will. Mr. Sachs goes over the whole sordid playbook formulated since the end of Soviet Russia in the early 90's to the Middle East's entrenched war planning via the close relationship of Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu to our national security and the expansion of Israel. Long term planning in all aspects. None of which that have returned peace, stability or prosperity. Every point he makes is backed up with archival documentation. This isn't innuendo or conjecture. As he says, he's been there and seen it up close and personal. Knowing the protagonists involved in crafting this multi decade effort. It's good to know the truth. Deception plays havoc with virtue. It erodes the spirit and faith of goodwill. Jeffrey Sachs speech video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA9qmOIUYJA Transcript: https://singjupost.com/transcript-jeffrey-sachs-on-the-geopolitics-of-peace-in-the-european-parliament/?singlepage=1 NATO expansion: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early The Grand Chessboard: https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/3518519 Clean Break & Middle East policy with Netanyahu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-02-25T12:06:40-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I've read many of the things you've posted from the "Moon of Alabama" website and others, including Jeffrey Sachs. In particular, I agree with some of what Jeffrey Sachs says. But I must admit that I disagree with his latest opinions. I'm not alone in this: From economist to Kremlin mouthpiece: The troubling transformation of Jeffrey Sachs, from theHill.com, June 19, 2024 Jeffrey Sachs: Checkered record on the stuff he’s “good at” and terrible takes on Ukraine and covid, from Medium.com, August 27, 2023 Frankly, Sachs talks out of both sides of his mouth these days. On one hand, he says he wishes people would have listened to him when he recommended what we should do to assist the governments and peoples of former Soviet countries. When he says that, I agree. But then he talks about how we shouldn't be involved. So which is it? Should we have done stuff to help after the Soviet Union crumbled? - The stuff Sachs proposed, I assume would have been OK with him - but so should we have involved ourselves or not? Honestly, when Sachs talks about what we could have done right after the Soviet Union dissolved, I agree with him. I think we could have assisted Soviet nations and their peoples to convert to a free-market system. We could have educated the public on the value of having ownership in their companies. We could have helped their industries get back on their feet, maybe offered assistance and taken some of the profits in return. So when Sachs talks about how he wished his recommendations had been followed back in the early post-Soviet days, I agree. As an economist, his guidance would have probably been very valuable over there. But that didn't happen. So now what? Lately, Sachs seems to want to talk about all the bad stuff America did and is still doing. On that, I don't really disagree. We do some stuff I think is pretty stupid, or at least ineffective. And I think we often fail to do stuff that would be productive. But there are some things are very apparent to m…
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2025-02-25T17:45:41-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Honestly now. Talking out both sides of his mouth? No. He is consistent with what he means. The US policy with the former Soviet Union was, as he says, do enough to avert catastrophe during the break up and reformation of the economic structure. But do nothing more to HELP Russia. As Sachs had done in Poland and approved of by the US. This ties into the consistent policy of Russia-phobia he speaks of. And our government is the one that didn't want to be involved. Period. Their policy has been the breakup of Russia. Not to help them then or ever. We shouldn't be involved as with this overarching dominance in this world we've conducted since post WWII. Planning and meddling overt and covert regime change, sanctioning, warmongering and lack of diplomacy. I'm quite sure you could find a host of other links to people editorializing what Sachs talks about. The world is divided into camps of ideologies and biases. Propaganda plays a large part of that. So now what? End this war in Ukraine. It was a fabrication by design as pointed out and documented by official memoirs that upon any reasonable investigation free from bias and political motivation shows our premeditation towards provoking what any leader, (most certainly ours) would commence armed action against. We almost started WW3 in the 1960's over a sovereign country having missiles within their borders by request. The fact that Putin did invade Ukraine and would not tolerate any longer this encroachment by NATO by proxy via the US was a call to our bluff over many years of antagonization. By NATO enlargement and by our sanctioning. Finally, this distain of Putin and Russia's oligarchy is a trumped up charge. More propaganda fueled by the Mighty Wurlitzer. This country is a basket case from our own oligarchy. And currently is being made even more undemocratic because of them. One in particular. And to imply that Russia is dirtier so to speak from their leadership and economic corruption is laughable to what our own so…
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-02-25T22:39:07-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: The political theater swirling around Ukraine is like a Marx Brothers movie. Chaotic and absurd. Yesterday was the big blow out in the oval office. The ongoing paint gun splatter the public gets over Ukraine's huge, enormous potential for minerals and rare earths is being hyped into the peace talk initiatives going on. This highlights essentially the false flag journalism that yanks the public around like a yoyo. Businessman Kevin Walmsley puts the lid down on the stovetop fire generated by our commercial media outlets. He and the alternative outlets of journalism with some integrity have been pointing out that Ukraine and its natural resources are vastly overblown. Their potential worth extracting highly questionable and what there is also reside in the area that will be folded into Russia when the dust settles. Mind you our very own government has ridden this phony backdrop jockeying position with the movement going on ground level with this phony unnecessary war even to have occurred. Its how the empire management system works along with the Mighty Wurlitzer propaganda apparatus. Ukraine's $500 billion rare earths scam: they don't exist, and we should know better https://kdwalmsley.substack.com/p/ukraines-500-billion-rare-earths
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-01T13:12:38-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I absolutely hated seeing that yesterday. I was hopeful we'd get somewhere. but what I saw yesterday was worse than watching kindergarten bullies picking on a disabled kid. Most of what's going on politically today is unnerving but makes me hopeful. Change is always uncomfortable, but I have guarded optimism it's for the best. But this bully stuff, well, it's too bad it isn't sight unseen in some kindergarten. Instead, it's on the world's stage. And it appears the world is pissed. Rightly so, in my opinion. I sure wish I could do more to help that disabled kid. He's actually really damn cool.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2025-03-01T15:58:49-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: My hope lies with what China is doing. They have a philosophy much different to Anglo-Saxon philosophy. In that they do not seem to have this conquest to impose ideology to other nations. To control and dominate as the sole unassailable nation. I think sharing and cooperation seems to be their hallmark. They're on a tear now building up from their not too distant humble status. While our nation is in the throws of losing control of its status. Hence our political and social turmoil is making a world scene. Really embarrassing. Going from a leader compromised by mental acuity to another leader compromised by his own delusions of grandeur. A change, if its gonna come. I can only hope is because our country can't continue along with the logic of its economic and foreign relations doctrine its followed for too many decades now. That's where I hope China brings its more benevolent influence into our national psyche. By example or by realistic dialogue. As uncomfortable to think of for our current 2 party political status quo is right now.
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-01T17:30:34-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi, Yes I am embarrassed to be an American. In one month the US has gone from a honorable but occasionally misguided nation to a comedy circus. International respect has gone down the toilet. To be sure some changes need to be made, but chaos is not necessary to accomplish them. I figure it is rather common for Leaders to not agree on everything. But respecting each other is absolutely necessary for peaceful resolution of problems. What we all saw yesterday is the antithesis of diplomacy. I personally feel it was orchestrated to demean one of the leaders as a favor to a third party who incidentally celebrated the exchange. Disgraceful is not a strong enough word. My hopes for a better future for my children and grand children just dropped a couple of notches.
creator: gofar99
date: 2025-03-02T02:06:08-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: More.. https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/01/us/missouri-sb72-illegal-immigrant-reward-bill/index.html here comes 1939. Put a bounty on folks. Just wonderful.
creator: gofar99
date: 2025-03-02T02:12:29-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: There's more. I don't know about you all, but when someone shakes a finger in my face it is not a sign of respect. Kind of like scolding a child. In situations like we saw yesterday it demonstrates a complete lack of control and understanding on the part of the finger pointer. A clearly personal attack that has nothing to do with the purported purpose of the meeting. I'm done for today but expect to to further embarrassed by the conduct of some individuals.
creator: gofar99
date: 2025-03-02T02:27:09-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Well the whole demeaning tone out of the notion of "ungratefulness" is an affront to the destruction and blood shed by Ukraine. Estimates so far are some half a million dead and untold wounded. Never mind our country's contribution towards initiating this conflict to occur. Trump expects repayment for our support! Throwing out numbers way over what was actually allotted by congress. Alluding to bogus mineral reserves that even if they did exist in quantity to extract should be at the discretion of the country containing the minerals. Zelenski is no angel though. But Trump is only transactionally minded. He wins, you lose. Winner takes all. I remember the legislation for "bounty hunting" here in Missouri. Not unlike those in Texas for desperate women seeking an abortion. A Gestapo tactic either way. Interesting what's goin on in these town hall meetings here in Missouri. Representatives are getting an ear full.
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-02T14:38:00-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Despite all the ongoing and practically daily assaults what the new administration is projecting for all to see. The main objective in regards to Ukraine now is to END this fruitless war. Though you wouldn't know that listening to news in Europe to remain steadfast to allowing the continuation of death. For no possible good reason. And still there is denial and fear mongering to that Russian threat that's been in place since post WWII. Billions and billions spent on armament production to prevent invasion by Russia just as they did in Ukraine. Europe's next! Corporate media never, ever brings up the facts leading up to Russia's invasion on any other pretext than they just did it. They're the aggressors, they're at fault. The world operates on yes and no, black and white. No other factors enter into the judgement. The fact is though is that this war was predicted decades ago even by Henry Kissinger among others from this NATO buildup insanity. Ignored, pushed aside and scoffed at. As blogger Caitlin Johnstone writes: Quote: As the Trump administration pauses military aid to Ukraine and western liberals continue their shrieking meltdown over Trump hurting Saint Zelensky’s feelings, it’s probably worth reminding everyone that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was indisputably provoked by western aggressions. That’s why so many western experts and analysts spent years warning ahead of time that western aggressions were going to provoke an invasion of Ukraine. Now, some may hear this and say “Okay but Russia still shouldn’t have invaded even though our western leaders were aggressively provoking them to.” But before you do that it might be a good idea to look inside yourself and ask where that impulse is arising from. Why are you so eager to skip past the part where you criticize your own rulers for their role in starting this war and focus solely on criticizing the leader of an eastern government who has no power over you? What is it inside of you that’s flailing all over…
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-04T13:17:59-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: This just shows the depravity that our country does to other countries and their citizens. The Trump cabinet, (made up of some 13 billionaires) has submitted a proposition to Ukraine's government that expects the big payback of all of our weapons sent to them that only resulted in they losing hundred of thousands of lives and destruction of infrastructure. We crap all over countries in this world with our ignorant exceptionalism and with this administration expect some sort of slavish gratitude for being mauled in a war we helped instigate them into. Zelenski for one now is an illegitimate head of state having exceeded his term. And the Russians probably are not going to stop this campaign until all of their demands are met. Which I hope spells out the complicity of what the US and Britain had in this ever having to occur. But Trump and his oligarch pals visualize the world in a transactional framework. Lets make a deal. Come on down. We're a sick and depraved empire full of rot. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/03/trumps-rewritten-deal-with-ukraine-is-imposed-indentured-servitude.html#more
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-27T17:52:11-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: I agree with some of that, but I am hopeful that America continues to provide assistance and a tacit alliance with Ukraine. I am happy with a lend/lease deal like in WWII, where we expect repayment or with an investment plan that allows American companies to support Ukrainian infrastructure. I wish we had done that kind of thing decades ago. But I don't agree with any criticism of Zelensky. In my opinion, he is the best president Ukraine ever had. Most Ukrainians feel that way about him too.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2025-03-27T19:00:14-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Hi, I'm with Wayne on this. If we want any respect in the world we need to not only honor previous agreements but provide some assistance where entities that are not friendly toward us are trying to harm ones that are friendly. At the same time I am completely appalled by Trump wanting to take over Greenland. It puts us in a light as unfavorable as our enemies. I understand the election process in Ukraine but under the circumstances (basically war) I fully support Zelenski as their leader as do most Ukrainians. He has demonstrated that an underdog can hold a big dog at bay when assisted from folks like us. The above is not to indicate that the US is like snow white. We have numerous problems and cause plenty throughout the world as well. Right now I figure that we are really headed into deep S+++. I can only agree with about 20% of what the present adminstration is doing. We need to fix things not hack them randomly with a chain saw.
creator: gofar99
date: 2025-03-28T02:27:15-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: After WWI Germany was forced into reparations. Their economy floundered and eventually a strong willed leader emerged that built up their military along with nationalistic fervor and a twisted ethnic identity that led to another massive conflict. After WWII instead of expecting reparations from Germany for their atrocities. We forgave their debt. And their post war economy flourished becoming in time the largest economy in Europe. The German miracle it was known. Indebting countries like we do with the International Monetary Fund puts countries in servitude to bond holders. Just like what the proposal is to Ukraine. That country was "used" as part of our project to encircle Russia to the Black Sea. This project ran into a little snag through the will of the Russian government and people. So call it a loss as at the table at Vegas. You roll the dice as all of our little projects aimed at preserving our empire notion of exceptionalism. But Trump can't let it slide without coming out a winner. He's doing his typical adversarial "Trump card" with Russia with negotiations. They aren't flying. And with Ukraine naturally being now in a rock & hard place. His demands are high. Zelensky isn't the intrepid stoic underdog as made out. He's as crooked as a great deal of what the Ukrainian government is and has been for some time. There has been a large coalition of Nationalist Nazi oriented fascists infested within the confines of government there. Whatever it took to bribe or influence Zelensky to go along with the US and Britain's "Let's give it a go" idiotic commitment to go to all out war with Russia with our lack luster backing shows how compromised Zelensky is to govern his country with the wellbeing of Ukrainians in mind. Their people are exhausted by this terrible fraud foisted on them. They can't replenish their front lines without abducting unwilling men to serve as targets now for the Russian meat grinder. I doubt that Zelensky holds high esteem with most Ukraine's. …
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-28T13:56:28-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: When should there be respect when none is shown? When one sovereign country is used in a ruse to go against another country to try and diminish and degrade it's sovereignty and security. Trump now is using his typical egocentric tactics with negotiations with Russia that are totally transparent as being insincere. He wants a deal real fast to look decisive but Putin knows from experience how insincere the US is with treaties in the past. The BRICS alliance was formed as a defense to counter US hegemony and aggression with our financial trade system monopoly with the dollar. The BRICS countries are actively hedging gold and decoupling from the dollar to protect their economies from our imperialist mindset. In the Middle East the threat of escalating war is exacerbating with our wanton illegitimate stand with Israel. How does our standing in the world as a warmongering, conniving, selfish, boorish and aggressive empire make us morally superior? Parts of the world are standing up to this malarkey, and rightly so. Even Greenland.
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-29T13:41:34-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: A sad testimonial of disconnect with what the propaganda crap is written in our supposed higher journalism source in denial of who, what, when and why this all happened. To the reality on the ground being subjected to the horrors of war. That I'll remind over and over. Did not have to happen. But the disconnect still persists. Just read the NY Times to stay pleasantly numb. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/03/racist-allied-underestimation-of-russias-abilities-led-to-its-win.html#more Please don't use my name. Reality. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2025/03/27/please-don-t-use-my-name
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-03-31T17:36:24-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Latest 'news' presents a proposal by Vladimir Putin for peace talks in Istanbul Turkey on May 15th between the two waring parties. As they'd done back in 2022 before that little intrusion by the messy haired Brit. Boris Johnson led to this colossal cluster "f-k" we read and have debated over now. So I truly hope that this effort is genuine and maybe can be without any further meddling by US or European entities in peace initiatives. The terms mentioned are consistent with what the Russian's have insisted on all along. Primarily the no NATO encroachment ever in Ukraine and getting to the ROOT cause of this conflict having occurred. Maybe some plausible affirmation towards the US involvement can be prettied up to be acceptable to Trump and crowd. After all, Biden started it. Trump now can say, he ended it. The irony still is that Ukraine would retain the right to be aligned economically with the European Union. Just as it was hammered out back in 22 in Istanbul. But with neutrality and... No NATO! Wouldn't it be nice if some future May 9th that Ukrainian, European and American officials would join in on the celebration in Red Square in Moscow to celebrate the end of WWII in Europe!
creator: Rusty
date: 2025-05-11T11:25:16-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2025-05-20T18:09:48-00:00

Re: Ukraine
type: item
description: Five point plan for peace: 1. Russia admits that it has no legal standing in Ukraine. It agrees to cease all attempts to control Ukraine and its relationships with NATO, the European Union and all other countries and organizations. Further, Russia respects UN Charter Article 2, paragraph 4, which prohibits the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of any state. 2. Russia withdraws all troops from Ukraine, including the Donbas region and the Crimean Peninsula. 3. Russia pays for all reparations to the country of Ukraine, each company and every individual citizen. The amounts to be paid will be determined by a panel of judges made up of Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanian citizens. The funds for reparations will be paid in oil, exchanged for currency in Euros, American dollars or Ukrainian gryvni. 4. Any further aggression upon Ukraine will be defended by armed forces of any and all NATO member countries, regardless of Ukraine membership. 5. Russia agrees that if it attacks any country for any reason, it forfeits Kaliningrad and all its properties, military assets and armaments. The military assets will go to Lithuania and the land and all other assets will become a part of Poland. If any of this is unacceptable to Russia, then Ukraine will be allowed to purchase or borrow any and all military technologies of any NATO member state. There will be no more "throttling" of their war with Russia. Ukraine will be assisted by all NATO countries and allowed to attack Russia by any and all means possible. And regrettably, there will be a lot of "accidents" in and around Kaliningrad and the northern and eastern borders of Ukraine. Lots of accidents. This is just an unfortunate consequence of all the understandable defensive troop movements in Poland and Lithuania, and of all the NATO-sanctioned humanitarian efforts in Ukraine.
creator: Wayne Parham
date: 2025-11-28T22:52:54-00:00