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Re:Monty Python! [message #18522 is a reply to message #18520] Mon, 30 January 2006 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
If you are a python fan try the british sit-com "The Office.", not the American version, the britsh one.

Re: 50Hz - 200Hz [message #18523 is a reply to message #18518] Mon, 30 January 2006 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
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Registered: May 2009
Master
Wayne,

"I haven't listened to the Dayton woofers, they may really sound good. Maybe their distortion levels are very low."

What type of distortion are you describing? If it is displacement generated then I would counter by saying that I have two 97 dB/w/m 15 inch woofers wired in parallel and even at loud volumes the motions are so small they are not visible. Where would distortion be generated?

I believe that these Dayton drivers are made by Eminence, but I might be wrong, which indicates quality to me. When I compared the Dayton's T/S parameters, and the physical description, I was convinced they were identical at that level to the JBL 2226. You have worked with many drivers so I am looking for an opinion on where I can improve, I have only worked with these Daytons. What would I be missing that might make them behave differently then the JBL drivers below 200 Hz?

Martin

Re: 50Hz - 200Hz [message #18524 is a reply to message #18523] Mon, 30 January 2006 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18683
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

It's caused by flux modulation, making piston motion asymmetrical. A properly designed shorting ring helps counteract this.


Re:Monty Python! [message #18525 is a reply to message #18522] Mon, 30 January 2006 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18683
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Thanks, I'll check it out. British humor is real hit and miss for me. I liked some of "The Goodies" back in the seveties and early eighties, but some of the stuff they did was downright weird. Maybe there were cultural references I didn't understand. Then there was "Fawlty Towers" and more recently "Keeping Up Appearances" and "Are You Being Served." I kind of like "Are You Being Served" but "Keeping Up Appearances" is 30 minutes of the kind of thing that makes you terribly uncomfortable in people. It's funny, in a way, but it's the kind of people you try to avoid in real life, and I feel the same way about watching them on TV. That one is more "miss" than "hit".


Re: And now for something completely different ...... [message #18526 is a reply to message #18496] Mon, 30 January 2006 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
footstony is currently offline  footstony
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Very nice Martin,

It is completely different, but also the same...
still wavelengths to contend with, no BSC is a big bonus but plenty of baffle issues to think about.

A lot of musical instruments are dipole radiators especially kick drums!

How would you model a man with a tape recorder up his nose?

Regards Philip

Re: And now for something completely different ...... [message #18527 is a reply to message #18526] Mon, 30 January 2006 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
It is different for me is all I was implying.

"still wavelengths to contend with, no BSC is a big bonus but plenty of baffle issues to think about."

OK, couple of questions. What waveguides are you referring to and what are the baffle issues?

"A lot of musical instruments are dipole radiators especially kick drums!"

Good observation, I had not thought of that before.

"How would you model a man with a tape recorder up his nose?"

Not sure what this means, why would I want ot model a man with a tape recorder up his nose?

Martin



Re: 50Hz - 200Hz [message #18528 is a reply to message #18524] Mon, 30 January 2006 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
You get flux modulation with very small motions in a driver that claims an Xmax of +/- 3 mm? I have not observed these moving +/- 0.5 mm at fairly loud volumes in my somewhat too small room.

Martin

Re: 50Hz - 200Hz [message #18529 is a reply to message #18528] Mon, 30 January 2006 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18683
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Distortion is reduced at lower power levels, this is true. But it is still lower on a device with a flux control ring than one without.

I've heard good drivers without shorting rings, but all the speakers that sound really great to me have this technology. At moderate power levels, I can tell 'em right away, as soon as I hit the door when one is playing. It's that apparent to me.


Re: And now for something completely different ...... [message #18530 is a reply to message #18527] Mon, 30 January 2006 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
footstony is currently offline  footstony
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Hi Martin,

You must think I'm mad. It was a very bad joke. We are very familiar with British TV in Australia.

I was talking about the Monty Python sketch. (from memory) And now for something completely different ...a man with a tape recorder up his nose, (then a man with a tape recorder up someone elses nose and finally in stereo)
I was wondering how it might really sound. If you were really keen it could be modelled. You have the (nasal) cavity then the nasopharynx leading to the throat perhaps it would work like a BLH. It's not very funny at all..

When I read your post, I was thinking about wavelengths in relation to the dimensions of the (open) baffle. Dips and nulls can be predicted at wavelength multiples. Its funny how something so different to a ML TL or a ML TQWT can be also the same. Optimising the dimensions according to wavelengths involved. it's all a bit deep and meaningful really...

I have played with a few open baffles with a variety of speakers although my wife thought they were too big. I love the "articulation" of the fundamental frequencies.

Regards Philip

Push-pull for pneumatic symmetry at VLF [message #18531 is a reply to message #18529] Mon, 30 January 2006 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18683
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Hey, I just thought of something. You have two woofers, so run 'em in push-pull. That provides pneumatic symmetry essentially by having a "strong" driver and a "weak" driver on each half-cycle. They'll combine well at very low frequencies. Seems to me that a shorting ring must work better higher up, but down low the push-pull idea is probably best. Be interesting to measure and find out where the transition frequency is, if there is one, but I would also guess that driver position and orientation would matter a lot. Anyway, it's a thought.


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