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Pet Peeve [message #55339] Tue, 27 June 2006 10:37 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Anyone have this happen to them; I have read reviews written about items played at shows about which I am either very familiar or at least somewhat familiar. Now taking into account the differences in system components and room interactions,( even though some of these written about are played in many different rooms at many times of day in the same show,) I have to wonder when a piece that you know; you have discussed many times with others and have read extensively about is treated as something altogether different than you would expect.
Ie; when an amp say or a pair of speakers is lauded and praised by an individual and you and pretty much everyones opinion of that piece completely contradicts what you read from someone; would you then have some kind of suspician? Especially if you learned later on that that piece was in fact somehow tied to that individualls financial status?

My point being this; can you accept that even though you have great experience of a piece and that experience is corroborated by others; should you believe in the inherent sincerity of someone's contrary opinion even though they have a potentially conflicted interest in that piece?

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55340 is a reply to message #55339] Tue, 27 June 2006 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Now that's something we're in 100% agreement about. I'm sure this happens in other lines of business but I've never seen it as rampant as I do in audio.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55341 is a reply to message #55340] Tue, 27 June 2006 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yes; thats true. There is a line. Now what interests me is exactly where that line gets crossed. I mean maybe someone is close friends with someone else who happens to sell something. If that something isn't exactly so great; and the world is pretty much in agreement on that; do you...support your friends efforts even though they may not be up to par; or, be truthfull regardless of it's effect on others?
What is the ethical stance here?


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55342 is a reply to message #55339] Tue, 27 June 2006 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Let's say it would depend on who you valued more. The person who asked for a straight up answer and honest opine, Or the friend you partake with charad of pretence that the said product is wonderful.
Does it really matter if it's a simple audio circuit or a trade secret. It falls on 'your' morals as the person to whom a question put forth to. if then conflict between opinion and friendship. For what side of the fence will you sit? with a friend, or with honesty.

Sitting with honesty can provide a better nights sleep.

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55343 is a reply to message #55342] Tue, 27 June 2006 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
O'Kay; what about if that friend relied on this positive review for his success in his business and if you were to be honest it might adversly affect his future?
You would be tempted to do what you could to help; but then your opinion will always be suspect.
But what if you really did not care a wit about whether this product did wjhat it claimed or not because you don't really care about the thing it claimed to do. Then would you be on the fair ground to just say; what the hey; I like it. Even if you had no concern one way or the other how well it performed?

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55344 is a reply to message #55341] Tue, 27 June 2006 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

That's a very good scenario to think about, better still to face and grow through. My thinking is that it is good to be loyal and to pick a side. Stand by your friends and family. It is also good to not have to make a choice between integrity and loyalty. The best way to do both at the same time is to choose one's friends wisely.

The trouble comes when the trouble comes, 'cause sometimes a good person stumbles. That's when a person has to make a decision. I've been very blessed, in that I've been fortunate to have a lot of great life-long friends. I haven't had to make a choice like that often, and usually, on the rare time that I do, I sort of just feel like going my own way so the decision isn't that hard.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55345 is a reply to message #55344] Wed, 28 June 2006 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Thanks Wayne; actually I was thinking more along the lines of audio and what to do regarding offering an opinion of someones gear who may have a personal connection to us. If the gear is resoundingly not so fine and everyone knows that; you are putting a personal reputation on the line of you support that less than stellar piece with a positive review from yourself.
Thats the connundrum I am interested in. In life I always support my friends regardless; loyalty is very important to me.

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55346 is a reply to message #55345] Wed, 28 June 2006 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Yeah, I know my reply was somewhat general, but I believe it still applies. At least I know I choose business aquaintences by the same approach.

What I've seen in audio is a tendency for some manufacturers to pander to reviewers, hoping to cultivate a better image. I think this is an ugly thing, transparent in every way. But I also know a handful of people in audio that I trust, and at least one has moved towards becoming a reviewer. That one, I trust because he has shown himself to be trustworthy over the years. Bill Epstein has always been friendly, genuine and honest. The folks at AudioXpress seem like they might be pretty good too.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55347 is a reply to message #55346] Wed, 28 June 2006 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
O'Kay; the Master Of The Non-Answer.

" Ohh you can't scare me I'm stickin' to the union;
Stickin' to the union,
Stickin' to the union,
Oh you can't scare me I'm stickin' to the union;
Stickin' to the union;
Till the day I die!"

Woodrow Wilson Guthrie
Genuine native of Oklahoma and all around good guy.

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55348 is a reply to message #55343] Wed, 28 June 2006 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

Well John, for me the audio review is a rotten example. Either way it wouldn't matter. If I give a stunning review for a friend on a piece of equipment that is marginal. How can I be tarnished by people who don't like the piece? No matter who made the piece, only a small percentage will agree with me that this is the greatest piece any way. As an example, If I said my horns are the best, edgars horns are the best, wilson speakers are the best, klipsch is the best, 2A3, 300B, no wait it's push pull, SET. ...
It wont matter because but mot more than a grouping would say that anyone of those is the best hands down.

So, in answering your question. Of course I review my friends piece. I'm already prejudiced by the fact he is my friend. If the piece in question is absolute dog shit, I have no problem to tell the friend that too. It will save him money in the long run because if it's that bad than there is no money to be made anyway.
So you do your friend a favor and write a review.

Good reviews help you with sales, bad reviews help you with product development. If enough people told me that a speaker I make with a crappy part doesnt sound so good, do you think I'm going to keep building it with out making a design change just because "i" like it? being self centered isn't a good way to manage a company; so of course i make a change. If sales are good for something then you figure out how to push them out until there is no more market. then wait a few years, make cosmetic change and introduce a new product. It's already been tested as successful.

The loyalty is with your friends. If they remain your friends while you converse on common ground and not loose sight of your morals than the friendship is wholesome and working. If you don't speak on common ground and jeprodize your morals then that person is not a friend. you must move on.

why do you ask grasshopper?

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