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Re: Pet Peeve [message #55349 is a reply to message #55348] Thu, 29 June 2006 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Hey Bill; actually in terms of formal reviews thats a whole nother subject. I really posted about show reports and how people handle them. See usually the folks who exhibit in the local shows and area gatherings all know each other or know of each others work and there seems to be a strong loyalty bid from the friends that contribute to the written descriptions of the shows. I was basically wondering how the concept of unbiased reportage is approached in that situation.

To write about formal reviewers is pointless in my view. That job comes with a lot of baggage so as we all know anyone reading formal reviews must excersize a small dgree of healthy scepticism. I know it has always been my habit to try and read between the lines in those type of reviews and see what the reviewer is really thinking. Because we know you can't bite the hand that feeds you; but there are ways to do the end run around that.

At local shows it would; i assume, be in bad taste to flame someones efforts; but we also know some are not so great. If you as the writer find yourself praising a piece that seems to be universally panned by others; but it belongs to a friend then what and how do you handle it?

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55350 is a reply to message #55349] Fri, 30 June 2006 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Something like this? -

"Cooperative alliances whereby one party posts about another so that product announcement rules can be circumvented are prohibited. If we see these kinds of relationships develop, we will consider the parties to represent one another, whether a financial relationship exists or not. In other words, if you consistently support a particular person or company, we will view you as a representative of that person or organization even if you're not currently on their payroll.

The things that are essentially being traded in many of these informal cooperative relationships are goodwill and credibility, things that have an actual value even though no money may have changed hands. These kinds of cooperative relationships are actually pretty common between certain individuals, dealers and manufacturers. We encourage your participation here, but please realize that these alliances can unfairly disadvantage others. We hope that you will share your views openly, but please be careful to refrain from the temptation to advertise."


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55351 is a reply to message #55350] Fri, 30 June 2006 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well; that seems a reasonable caveat. Where does the line begin? Reading rules and laws is easy; interpreting them is where the hard part comes in. On the face of it that seems like a pretty thorough examination of the possiblities but I am sure we could come up with plenty of grey area easily.
How much or many times would be considered circumventing product refferal rules? If there is a company that provides a service or parts to your site; can you mention them in a positive light on a regular basis?
What about a company that advertizes on someones site; can they be mentioned consistently as a high quality item without any rebuttal from a contrary point of view? Does that qaulify as a breach of the rule?
What if there is a product that really doesn't do what it claims yet is consistantly mentioned in a positive light by a member who might have an interest in seeing that product be successfull? Even if they own the product themselves and use that as a safety position regarding their consistent positive mention.
Lot harder than it looks but really people do rely on what folks write about things so if you as a writer have that power it should be excersized responsibly. Which is the point of this post.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55352 is a reply to message #55351] Fri, 30 June 2006 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

We want to adhere to the rules. Like you say, it's easy to cross the line, especially when we start feeling like we know one another and are just talking on the forum like we would in person, at a club meeting or trade show or whatever. But the whole reason we established these rules is that we saw unfair advantage for some on other websites, so we want to be careful of doing the same thing here.

One place I personally felt conflicted about this was on the GPAF write-ups. Some there are ART sponsors, others aren't. But everyone at GPAF got a banner ad and a write-up. It's truly a grass-roots event that's there to allow folks to show their gear without cost. It allows new small manufacturers and hobbyists the same ability to show as larger companies, and it lets the public have a chance to interact with them. The problem is that non-sponsors have no association with ART, yet sponsors do. So in order to prevent giving non-sponsors an advantage to sponsors, I wrote up each of them. But I did try to make each write-up pretty basic, just introduce each room and describe its contents. Others were able to comment in more detail.

I'm hoping next year some of this will get delegated to others. It's a lot of work to arrange the event, do the press releases and set up signs, take photos and do write-ups afterward. I am thankful that so much enthusiasm has been sparked and I think next year some of these tasks will be delegated to others.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55353 is a reply to message #55352] Fri, 30 June 2006 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well; there we go. Regardless of how much you bend over backwards to appease a sense of fairness it almost seems impossible. Look at what you have to do in your own words; you have to modify your thinking to accomodate that sense.
Can you write that a piece sucks? No. So you do the best you can to give each set-up a fair shake; but then is that giving the reader a fair shake?
Where am I going with this? I say you either let the chips fall where they may or you strangle fair reporting. I can't see how it can be done any other way.
Thats my personal confusion. To be honest requires that feelings and maybe even revenue suffers. To be dishonest or maybe not so dire as that but maybe; lets say disengenously kind ; then you steer people wrong.
By prempting your own opinion in the sense that you have to be gentle to all the people who support you; you negate the value of anykind of quality judgement. Saying everything is good is the same as saying everything is not so good; it's meaningless. Because if everything is good then you just buy the cheapest thing.
I don't envy you your job here.
But I find a value in discussing things on this level.

Re: Pet Peeve [message #55354 is a reply to message #55353] Sat, 01 July 2006 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Others can comment in more detail; It would not be too cool for me to be very vocal because I am a manufacturer.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55355 is a reply to message #55354] Sat, 01 July 2006 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
True but you also reviewed all the set-ups at the show. If you take on the responsibility of reviewing then you are implicated in our discussion. Along with anyone else who does this.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55356 is a reply to message #55355] Sat, 01 July 2006 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18686
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

No, I didn't review anything. I made a few comments, but kept them pretty sparse. I was too busy to give anything outside my own room a critical listen so I wouldn't have been able to review anything even if I wanted to.


Re: Pet Peeve [message #55357 is a reply to message #55356] Sun, 02 July 2006 08:04 Go to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
O'Kay; my bad.

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