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6 vs 7 vs 8? [message #61984] Thu, 04 March 2010 19:17 Go to next message
Rick B is currently offline  Rick B
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2010
Location: Jefferson City MO
Esquire
Wayne, could you explain the basic differences to me between the 6,7 and 8 horns?

What's the midrange like on the 8's?

What's the top range of the #12 sub?

Could I get plans for the #7 and the #8 to compare the build difficulty please?

TIA Smile

Rick
Information about π Speakers [message #61986 is a reply to message #61984] Thu, 04 March 2010 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18676
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

The sonic differences between models is mostly set by their woofers. The six π and seven π cornerhorns are exactly the same in every respect except their woofers. Also, don't forget that both models have options; The six π can use the Eminence Delta 12LF or the AE TD12S and the seven π can use the Eminence 15A or the JBL 2226H. It's the woofers that make the difference.

Sometimes when I tell this to people, I sense that they mentally minimize the significance of this. Don't. The woofer is where it's all at, or at least a lot of it, where sound quality is concerned. Not to say the tweeter isn't important, but the woofer is the foundation, and more than just bass, it is responsible for a large part of what you hear as midrange. Even in the six π and seven π cornerhorns, with their large midhorns pushed as low as they could possibly go, the woofer still runs up beyond middle C. That's a pretty big part of the fundamentals of many instruments and male voices. And on the large DI-matched two-way speakers, the three π and four π (and eight π) speakers, the midwoofer is responsible for even more - it covers all the midrange, even up into the overtone region, in addition to the bass.

What I'm trying to say is the woofer is responsible, to a large degree, for a good portion of the sonic character of all my speakers. This is true of most loudspeakers, for that matter. You really want a driver that has a motor capable, doesn't become non-linear at moderate power levels and has good thermal qualities. Equally important, it should have a cone/suspension that is well damped, free of upper-frequency resonances that introduce breakup. This is what separates the good from the bad, and the great from the good. It really is the heart of the loudspeaker, and many times I see people glaze over it. All the work in crossover design and horn pattern control is lost if you use a crummy woofer. Well, maybe not all, but you get the idea. I've put a lot of effort into making these things perfect, so I like to see them implemented with the best parts.

Beyond that, I'll explain the differences in system configurations, and that will take a little bit of π Speakers history.

For years, I've had only the small two-ways, the larger controlled-directivity two-ways and the constant-directivity cornerhorns. The little two-ways were the one π and two π, with 8" and 10" woofers, respectively. The larger two-ways offered horns with uniform-directivity, being the three π with a 12" midwoofer and four π with a 15" midwoofer. The cornerhorns were the five π with 10" woofer, the six π with 12" woofer and seven π with 15" woofer. In each of these, the midrange and tweeter subsystems were similar, although the model number was tied to woofer size. That's just how it has always been.

The thing is, for all of the 1980's and most of the 1990's, the cornerhorns were three way speakers with direct-radiating midrange. The idea was that the corner would provide the directivity for the midrange, just like it did for the woofer, at least from the Schroeder frequency (about 100Hz to 150Hz or so) upwards. I made them two-ways for a few years, as an experiment, but the point is that in each case, where there was a midrange driver or drivers, it was usually 5" or 6" driver(s), and never larger than an 8". So having a five π model cornerhorn with 10" woofer and 5" midrange made sense.

In 2003, when I started making the current models with large midhorns, I decided rather than making a five π cornerhorn with a 10" woofer, instead I'd make a two-way, something like a miniture version of the VOTT. That's where the eight π was born. I could have used a 10" woofer in the traditional π cornerhorn bass bin, and put the midhorn and tweeter on top, but I chose not to do that. So the eight π really takes the place of what would have been a five π cornerhorn. You can place the eight π in the corners, but you don't have to.
Re: Information about π Speakers [message #61987 is a reply to message #61986] Thu, 04 March 2010 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick B is currently offline  Rick B
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2010
Location: Jefferson City MO
Esquire
Wayne, thanks for the detailed response.

Could I get plans for the 7 & the 8 so I can decide which would be best for my room?

TIA

Rick
Re: Information about π Speakers [message #61988 is a reply to message #61987] Thu, 04 March 2010 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18676
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I sent them. Did you not receive the plans?

Re: Information about π Speakers [message #61989 is a reply to message #61988] Fri, 05 March 2010 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick B is currently offline  Rick B
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2010
Location: Jefferson City MO
Esquire
Thanks Wayne. Cool

But I requested the wrong sub, I think it's the ported #3 sub that I'm actually interested in. Embarassed

Also, could a person place the mid & tweet horn atop the #3 sub? Does it go high enough? I'm asking in case I don't use the #7 in a corner. Just wanting to know what's possible.

Thanks again.

Rick
Re: Information about π Speakers [message #61990 is a reply to message #61989] Fri, 05 March 2010 08:52 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18676
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'll send plans for the three π sub, but it's going to be this evening. I'm at a client site in Kansas City today.

Good choice, adding subs, by the way. Really helps smooth room modes, in addition to extending the bass response.

I wouldn't suggest replacing the woofers from the mains with woofers from the subs though. Remember what I said about the quality of the (mid)woofer, how it runs into the midrange. That's reason enough to keep woofers in the mains that play nice through the mids. The other reason is it makes sense to leave the mains alone, keep the woofers in them as they are, and add subs, placing them around the room to smooth room modes.

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